I wasn't going to stay up for the election

[Workingman]

I went to bed long before any results came in after flicking from the BBC to Sky to ITV again and again. God, how those pundits love themselves!

There result is about as bad as it could get, and not because Leave won, they have to be congratulated.

It is a bad result because on such an important issue for our history only 72% of us could be bothered to get off our backsides and vote. The result of that vote is about as close as it could have been 52% - 48%. So the country is split almost equally into thirds - one for Leave, one for Remain and one made up of people who couldn't give a stuff.

PS Hi Shaz, welcome, I also voted Remain, but like you I am not that gutted.

[Suff]

It was, however, the best turnout we have had on any EU issue in the last 3 decades. So we can't say that people didn't care.

In fact, overall, Scotland dragged the turnout down a bit, it was generally higher in England and Wales. Glasgow with mid 50's was, I believe, an indication of how engaged they felt in it all.

Pretty much where Leave mattered the vote was high, where Remain mattered it was lower. Which, in the end, was what killed Remain because their heartland was very high density people. Which meant that t their lack of turnout hit them much, much harder than Leave who were pretty determined to get out and vote.

In the end it comes down to the same old thing. If you want something and you are not willing to get out there and do something about it, then it can be taken away from you.

I now wait with bated breath as they explain how the world is going to go on and get better against all their predictions. When the traders realise that the money will keep flowing, the contracts will continue to be fulfilled and stocks will still have their values, it will be pretty much back to business as usual within 2 - 4 weeks. Dire predictions forgotten. Osborne may even find it in himself to tell us how well the UK economy is doing... All over again....

[Workingman]

Having read some of their 'rubbing your noses in it' comments I was going to say that the lack of magnanimity in victory from the Leave camp was a shock, but it isn't. I suppose that is the modern way.

Having congratulated Leave on the win I now realise that being gracious in defeat was wrong and that two can play the game.

So, over to you, Brexit, time to deliver on your fantasies and versions of false truths.

But you can't, can you?

Businesses didn't support you; political parties didn't support you - they still don't. What is more, you are not in power and probably never will be.

You always knew this would be the case, but you never spelled it out. You hid the reality to get your own way.

Well, you got your own way, so be honest and tell us what you are going to do and how you will do it. You lot were gobby enough in the campaign, so don't go all quiet now.

I want the milk and honey you lot promised, and I want it immediately.

[cromwell]

This is unbelievable.Now the Germans and Dutch are talking about 'real reform' of the EU. So we could end up outside an EU we could have happily stayed a member of, if they had reformed properly, earlier.

Why is nothing ever simple?

Anyway, we'll see how the get out goes.

[Workingman]

Junker has just held a news conference.

The deal Cameron made in February is now null and void.

The UK is still part of the EU and with those rights come responsibilities that have to be adhered to.

There will be no renegotiation, repeat, no renegotiation.

A little bit of hard ball from the EU.

[Suff]

This is unbelievable.Now the Germans and Dutch are talking about 'real reform' of the EU. So we could end up outside an EU we could have happily stayed a member of, if they had reformed properly, earlier.

I have been totally consistent throughout this campaign in what I said about the EU. Not only is this not unbelievable, this is business as usual. We are so totally different that they totally ignore us. They don't understand the signals and they do whatever they want.

One of my key reasons for getting out is exactly this. Because this is what has been going on in the EU for most of my life. Ignore the UK, work against the UK, only work to the benefit of the rest of the EU and make the UK do what it's told. Forcing us to use our Veto over and over again.

Now they have forced our backs to the wall and miscalculated one fatal time. In so doing they have opened the door to all the irritation, hatred and invective of the growing right wing in the other EU27.

They have no choice now. They MUST reform or lose it all. One last time the UK has used its veto, the biggest veto, and given Brussels the finger. They may be trying to play hard ball with the UK over the Brexit, but they've suddenly woken up to the fact that unless they start draining the swamp the alligators are going to get them.

I could have written the script for this. Hang on, I did.... That meeting for Tuesday was to see how little they could give to the UK and not trigger another referendum. Now it's to see how little they can give everyone else to avoid a whole slew of referenda.....

[Workingman]

I watched, erm, Stuart, Gove and Johnson's, err, press conference earlier and how things have changed in, you know, a few short hours.

We are going to, erm, you know, work closely with our umm, European friends to, you know, get the best, erm, deal for both side.

Not if what Junker has just said you are not.

The EU might now well reform, but we will be on the outside looking in. Oh the irony.

[Suff]

it was never going to reform without the nuclear option. The warhead has just landed and none of the other members except France and Germany have the economy, the clout or (in France's case), the military muscle.

Whatever reform they do it will never be enough for the UK or cover what the UK needs. So sitting on the outside watching them play at reform won't be a major hardship.

Of course the rhetoric is about "getting the best deal". To say anything else would be total insanity and cause even more market panic. Expect the message to morph to a manageable level over time.

The Remain campaign, with their scare tactics, tried to create a Brexit poison pill where the economy would be hammered if we left, at least in the short term. Calm, solid, steady, statements are what is needed now and they are sensible enough to make them. The £ has already regained half of what it lost from two days ago (I don't count the bubble) and that will continue the longer the roof does not fall in and people don't panic and run screaming.

Nobody's going to come out fighting today. The body needs to get the poison out first then we can start really talking about what we need to do.

[Workingman]

Of course the rhetoric is about "getting the best deal". To say anything else would be total insanity and cause even more market panic.

Well that is a bit of a change. During the campaign Leavers were very bullish in telling us that, come the day, Independence Day, Friday June the 24th, we would get back our sovereignty, our borders, sort out immigration (Global and EU) spend £350m a week on the NHS, and so on.

Expect the message to morph to a manageable level over time.

What? Surely you are not saying the the claims were, how can I put this, a little bit over-egged and not manageable.

I assume that explanations for when and how my milk and honey will be delivered are now on hold for the foreseeable future.

[Suff]

Well that is a bit of a change. During the campaign Leavers were very bullish in telling us that, come the day, Independence Day, Friday June the 24th, we would get back our sovereignty, our borders, sort out immigration (Global and EU) spend £350m a week on the NHS, and so on.

What and the Remain camp didn't tell us that the whole world financial system, all the markets and the entire EU would fall into the crapper on the 24th... Leading the markets to total panic when it became obvious that Leave had it.... No, no, both sides take the blame for their excesses. But they would be far more to blame if they then stoked those fears and hurt the economy even more than Remain have hurt it.

What? Surely you are not saying the the claims were, how can I put this, a little bit over-egged and not manageable.

Would I Ever???