Final warning for the UK...

[Workingman]

... as well as for Germany, France, Italy and Spain.

The EU says that it will take these countries to the European Court of Justice if they do not clean up their air pollution. The threat is not about a country's total level of pollution regarding climate change, it is about local hot spots.

We have seen the attempts that cities like Madrid, Paris and Rome have tried in order to reduce street level pollution, but we hear very little about our own problems, with the possible exception of some days in London. However, the news is now out that Birmingham, Leeds and Glasgow all regularly break through the safety barriers putting millions more of us at risk of ill health.

There are a number of problems with all of this. One is that the pollution is with us here and now, it is not something creeping up on us that we can take steps to avoid. Another is that something is always going to be done; what that something is and when it will happen are never made clear. Then there are the problems caused when cities try to manage traffic. Very often these measures create or move congestion or cause vehicles to run inefficiently.

I do not know what the answer is, and I am not sure the EU does, either, but I am clear that those at the top in highways agencies do not have a clue.

[TheOstrich]

Well the quick fix, according to the pundits, is to ban all diesel vehicles - period. Which will never happen until a cheap, reliable, and above all, readily available source of alternative energy can be found.

As a matter of interest, whatever happened to all the Clean Air Acts of the (presumably) 1950's and 1960's?

[cromwell]

More people = more pollution.

Agree about the diesels Os. Ten years ago they were the saviour of the planet, now they are the devil's work and have to be banned. But only cars. I don't think I've read anywhere that lorries and buses are going to be banned, and they are the diesels that chuck out the most muck.

As the EU was incapable of detecting the fact that VW diesels were fiddling the emissions test maybe they aren't best placed to judge the situation.

I honestly think this is just more gesture politics. Ships, lorries, buses, planes - they all pollute. But taking action against cars is the only thing I've seen in the papers.

[Suff]

They already have action against Diesel trucks in London. The main emissions issue is Nitrogen Dioxide and trucks going into London have to have Urea mixed into the diesel to significantly reduce the NO2 emissions. Cars, of course, tend to be older and not have this technology. For the Euro5/6 engines the newest diesels have Urea mixing devices which have to be refilled from time to time in order to remain legal.

The point is this. Had they bitten the bullet a long time ago, all London Busses could have been LNG powered. Stockholm did it nearly a decade ago. That would reduce emissions a lot. It is a fuelling change in the engines, not an engine change.

Then we have the joyous Labour Mayor of London on the new Routemaster busses....

At the end of 2016 it was announced that London Mayor, Sadiq Khan, had discontinued procurement of the vehicles to save money to help pay for a promised four-year public transport fares freeze. TfL plan to invest in a new generation of buses to help improve air quality. No new Routemaster buses will be purchased for London, the funds instead going towards upgrading the city's existing fleet with the latest sustainable technologies.

So let's see. A freeze in public transport fares for 4 years is more important than the lives which will be lost because of the emissions in the air. The new Routemaster may not be perfect, but it is certainly not emitting anything when it's sitting at traffic lights or in traffic jams. Also the engine kicks in and simply goes to the most efficient cruise level whilst the electric buffers the stop start.

As for that "latest sustainable technologies" BS.... It costs about 5* as much as existing low emissions technology which means we'll get about 1/5th of it. Which won't help pollution much at all.

The lights are on but nobody's home. It's all politics but the impact is measured in dead people.

[AliasAggers]

The real trouble is that are far too many vehicles on the roads now, but no one seems able to
tackle the problem, probably because the measures required are considered unacceptable.

For instance, it should not be allowed to take children to school by car - this would be healthier
for the children, but it would then be necessary to use the nearest school, and do away with
this stupid idea of giving parents the choice of which school they use. All state schools should
have the same standard.

Secondly, There should be a penalty on firms who employ someone living more than so-many
miles from their place of employment. Travelling a vast number of miles to and from work is
not really necessary. Hardly anyone did it when I was young.

Thirdly, The railways should be used more for transporting goods, instead of the road network.

I expect my comments will be knocked down, but If something isn't done about the problem, it
will only get worse.

[Workingman]

What was once the rush hour has now become the rush two hours for many people, but I digress.

I once attended a presentation by a group called Transport 2000. It claimed that it could cut 250,000 rush hour journeys every day into and out of Leeds by a clever mix of buses, closing roads to cars, reconfiguring road junctions and the use of smart traffic lights. It all sounded very plausible, then it was the turn of the audience....

How many buses? What would happen to them and their drivers outside of the rush hours? How many more depots and technicians were needed to service them? Would the closed roads be open outside of rush hours? How smart would the traffic lights be? What did people do if the buses were full by certain stops? Would there be more congestion on other roads? Where was the money coming from?

As you can probably guess, none of it ever happened.

[TheOstrich]

I don't think I've read anywhere that lorries and buses are going to be banned, and they are the diesels that chuck out the most muck.
.

In Birmingham, probably about three years back now, they did ban public service vehicles (buses) that were non-compliant with the latest Euro emissions standard at that point (Euro 4?) from entering the city centre.

Virtually put all the free-enterprise mom-and-pop Ali Baba Bus Companies, who were mainly running 20 year-old cast-off single-deckers ex Lancashire municipal fleets, out of business overnight ....

I remember they were huge fun to ride, especially those with life-expired suspensions, and as a car driver, if you found yourself with one behind you, it was best to dive up a side street fast!

[AliasAggers]

That reminds my of the Midland Red single-decker buses back in the 1930s.
They had wooden-slatted seats that were most uncomfortable, and riding up Long Bank
out of Bewdley was a nightmare, as the driver had to keep double-declutching, with a
series of clashing gear-changes. If the bus had to stop for any reason, the conductor
had to run down the steps and stick a scotch under the front wheel to ensure that the
bus didn't run backwards. The buses had a leather-like chord running down the centre
isle which the conductor used to signal to the driver. One ding meant ' stop at the next
bus-stop', two dings meant 'go', three meant 'we're full-up', and an unlimited number of
rapid dings meant 'For God's sake stop, we have a problem'. Happy days!

[Suff]

They did the same in London with the low emissions zone.

When you look at the options, it rules out a lot of older vehicles.

Owners of vehicles that do not meet the above requirements have a number of options:[4]
Fit a filter
Replace the vehicle
Reorganise their fleet to only use compliant vehicles in London
Convert to natural gas
Pay the charge (from £100 to £200 for each calendar day that the vehicle travels within the zone)[

[Suff]

London's answer.

I did a quick check an mine is either Euro4 or EUro5. Mrs S' engine is absolutely Euro5. So we're good. But anyone with an older engine than around the 2004 mark is going to be picking up a price for it.