Manchester bombing

[cromwell]

And the next one.

Andy Burnham has already given the standard politicians speech. How we must not let these men of violence divide us etc etc; how this will make us stronger, etc etc.

I wonder if the candle lit vigil has already been arranged? The multi-faith demonstration of solidarity?

The political speeches where we will be urged not to be fearful?

The standard cliches all rolled out once more? Plus of course the BBC will say that the majority of peace loving Muslims are terrified of a right wing backlash and how we must guard against Islamophobia.

And of course, the horror of it all is being played down and the positives - everyone is pulling together, etc etc - played up. Maybe we'll be told that traffic is flowing freely in Manchester city centre now, as though that is a major positive.

RIP to the victims.

[manxie]

|I had a friend there with her daughter at the show, they are ok thankfully

Sadly many were not so lucky, Why do these sick people target young children and other civilians??

I could understand them bombing army barracks air force bases etc, but not innocents.

The ideology of these terrorists is severely flawed.

I can see some backlash to this latest bombing especially in the cities where they have large muslim areas, their cultural differences to ours shows they don't really want to integrate as british citizens and become part of the overall society of the United Kingdom.

Manxie xx

[Suff]

I am torn between utter heartache for those who have lost family/loved one's and grim irritation over how the press will spin this.

My Grandchildren could easily have been there, it is not that hard to put myself in the place of those who are afflicted. Then there are those with life changing injury or just life changing fear as a result of this.

We can't deal with this because we have become too civilised, whereas those who are doing this are using 7th century values.

[JoM]

Absolutely sickening.

My friend's two daughters were in there and she and her husband were outside waiting for them. She had a horrible time of knowing something dreadful had happened but wasn't able to get a connection on her phone to check they were okay. Thankfully they're unhurt.

I'm just trying to get my head around how we can be kept secure. We simply can't. Bags would've been checked on going into the arena but if you've been there you may know that this area falls outside of the security zone or whatever you might want to call it, so anyone can walk in. Do you then put security on that door? There's still nothing to stop someone who wants to cause an atrocity such as last night's from doing so. Where do you draw the line? Everywhere and everyone is a potential target.

Me and Joe were at Old Trafford on Sunday. Since the Paris attacks security has been increased. I'd been saying for years before then that I thought it odd that no checks were carried out before going in but since then there've been security cordons checking bags on the roads as you approach the stadium. If you want to go into the shop then it's a pat down or metal detector and bag search, and it's the same at the turnstiles and at that point any bags are tagged to show they've been checked. Or that's how it should be anyway. One game earlier this season we arrived at 2.50pm, 10 minutes before kick off, so to get people in security checks were pretty much abandoned on the turnstiles. A quick glance in my bag, a tag on the handle, swipe my card and I was in. No pat down. Sunday there were only male stewards on our entrance so I couldn't be patted down but the steward produced a hand held metal detector. I stood and held my arms out, he ran the detector over one arm, quickly looked in my bag and tagged it and that was it.

There's been a video going around for a few months of a steward at White Hart Lane performing pat downs. He's not even touching the supporters, he's patting thin air.

[cromwell]

Fear isn't the problem. What the authorities are worried about imo is not the public being fearful, but the public getting angry; because fearful people are much easier to handle than angry people.

It is interesting to see how people are being psychologically maneuvered by the TV news and politicians. How do you get them from a position of anger to a position of passivity? By selling passivity as the brave thing to do.

They might pull it off for ever and a day, too. Or people may start to think that standing around with candles singing we shall not be moved doesn't seem to be achieving much.

[miasmum]

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The above is the headline on Manchester Arena's website. Now either I have completely misunderstood or the foyer there is nothing to do with them. Talk about trying to disassociate yourself, obviously it mustn't be allowed to affect ticket sales. How stupid do they think the public are?

I am completely sickened and heartbroken and so glad people on here that knew people have had good news. Whilst I know what you say is true Cromwell, what else can people do except try and stand together and show solidarity. I'm sure people are angry too, but what can we do about it?

[JoM]

Shell, the MEN links with Victoria Station. This is happened in that link, a public space, a concourse area. The exit/entrance doors out of the arena complex lead into it. It's very possible that the arena has no ownership of that space.

I think the message is probably because a lot of fingers have been pointing at them concerning a breach in security but in that part there isn't security, there shouldn't be a need for it. It's open to all. It is, as mentioned in the message, a public space.

[AliasAggers]

I have just seen a photograph of a sweet little 8-year old girl, a victim of this outrageous happening,
and I must confess that, rather than showing the traditional stiff-upper-lip, I have shed real tears.
Where will it all end?

[miasmum]

Fair enough Jo but I still find it very distasteful.

Me too Aggers. I laid in bed this morning tears pouring down my face.

[TheOstrich]

RIP the innocent victims.

The authorities are going to have to get to grips with this current terrorism plague. If it means army on the streets, as in France, so be it. If it means forcible internment for returnees from Syria, so be it. If it means increased surveillance across the board, so be it.

Manxie earlier mentioned the possibility a backlash. Indeed, there was a backlash in Birmingham after the IRA pub bombings, but it didn't really help matters long-term. In the end, the pragmatists succeeded, hence the Good Friday agreement to stop the bloodshed, and bring years of relative peace. However, the Irish troubles were an entirely different set of circumstances, and it is difficult to see how we could ever come to any form of arrangement with what Suff correctly describes as a "7th century" religious cult, whose values are totally alien to our culture and civilisation.

And for that reason, I cannot go down the "let's have a vigil and all display solidarity" path. It's not my style, never has been, and frankly, it would stick in my craw. I will say a prayer for those who tragically died, but I will also pray that the authorities get a backbone and crack down massively on the elements within our society who turn a blind eye and allow these things to happen.