Scottish law and smacking

[cromwell]

You are right Ally, respect is key.
I was only physically punished twice. Once as a child when I got my uncle Sam's shirt dirty and once when I was caned at school. The caning had no effect whatsoever on my future behaviour, btw.
Uncle Sam at the time was a young miner, very smart. He was about to go out for the night and I got his fresh white shirt dirty and he clipped me around the ear. Bl**dy hurt too. That did make me realise about consequences, I think.
But yes. Respect is the biggest thing.

[Workingman]

Plato - "such trifles do add up: the teacher, in such a case, fears his pupils and fawns upon them, while pupils have in low esteem their teachers as well as their overseers; and, overall, the young copy the elders and contend hotly with them in words and in deeds, while the elders, lowering themselves to the level of the young, sate themselves with pleasantries and wit, mimicking the young in order not to look unpleasant and despotic"

Great quote and still true nearly 2,500 year later. It should be prominently displayed in every staff room, child services meeting room, and teacher training lecture hall.

So, smacking. When does a slap or a tap become a smack, and when does that become a hit, thump or a punch? How many of us have done the former to protect our children from physical harm such as touching a freshly boiled pan or kettle or picking up heated tongs by the wrong end? I know I have. I am not for physical violence, but there are times when "No!" or "Don't do that!" are not enough.

Many level-headed and 'normal' parents have used such methods down the years without turning their children into violent monsters, but such things are best done with an explanation as to why they were needed.

When it comes to 'physical force', such an emotive phrase, I am also guilty. I once grabbed Michael by the upper body to stop him running out into traffic to retrieve a football, and I also ankle-tapped Becky to deliberately bring her down. We were on a beach and she and her friends were about to run into the sea, but she did not see the escaped parasol hurtling towards her at great speed - I did. It passed safely, but there is no knowing the damage it could have caused had it hit her.

So, that's me, guilty as charged.

[Gal2]

Ally I could have written that post myself - only ever sent to my room as 'punishment', IF I'd overstepped a line, but tbf, my room was my favourite place to be so not really punishment. BUT if my dad said he was disappointed with me...…..

Distraction when trying to teach little ones not to touch hot surfaces and the like seems to be the way to go I think.

Gal, wot normally never opens the door to the News board either.....

[AliasAggers]

I only ever had the cane once at school. The headmaster was taking our class for a science lesson
and he told me to go downstairs to his office and fetch him his wooden metre rule, so off I went.
Coming back with the rule, I slipped on the stone stairs, and my knee cracked the rule into two.
When I re-entered the classroom and said, "I'm sorry, Sir, but I've broken it". The rest of the class
laughed, and the head turned a bright red as he said, "Come to room after this lesson". This I did,
and got several strokes of his cane. Most unfair, I thought. (But I didn't break his rule again!!!!)

[meriad]

You know I don't recall ever being smacked, but I know I was (because my brother and I often joke about the one instance when it happened) but I don't remember it.
My worst as a kid was being grounded / sent to my room and even that didn't happen all that often, because same as with your parents Ally, if we stepped out of line a word of warning was enough to quickly put us in our place.

Aggers, what happened to you at school I don't agree with - and these days it obviously wouldn't be allowed. But even back then I think you should have been able to say how the rule broke and you shouldn't have been punished for what was an accident. The schools I went to in SA - the boys school had caning as punishment; the girls' school used to have a ruler over the knuckles but that was then done away with and replaced with detention. Many girls often said they'd rather have a quick smack with a ruler than sit detention for an hour or more.

I agree that respect is key - but how does that parent who is trying so hard to instil that respect manage, when the kid ends up in the wrong crowd and deliberately goes against the parent (despite the parent trying really really hard) because it's cool to do that. I think parenting these days is a lot harder than it was when we were growing up

[Workingman]

Distraction - the universal panacea. I do not know of any parent who would allow their little ones to hurt themselves if they could prevent it, and if that meant a tap or a gentle shove they would do it. It is proved to work and causes a hell of a lot less damage than the 'theory' of distraction would if it fails. We need to get real here, and if we are honest most of us have done it.

The problem we seem to have here is language. 'Smack', 'physical force', 'restraint' are all emotive terms, but there are different levels to all of them. Nobody is promoting the beating of children to within an inch of their lives, but what they are saying is that sometimes physical chastisement is justified.

Ria has it for me.

[Suff]

Sweden banned smacking in 1979.

Over the decade that I worked in Sweden I saw the angst of three parents who's child was horrifically burned by pulling a cup of boiling water, poured out to put a tea bag in. In every case it was the same, the young child would not stop grabbing at things on the kitchen surface. Strong words, reasoning, no chance. The child was going to do it and that was that because the child was too young to understand and there was no other recourse at all.

As a result three bright young children were scarred for life over quite large parts of their body.

I'm sure, if you asked those three parents, they would all agree. Reasonable and measured, chastisement, is far preferable to a lifetime with burn scars.

One of my Grandchildren went through a stage of being a little monster to the cat, when he was three. He kept locking it in small spaces, pouring hot water on it and a range of other "not nice" things. He was determined, as he is to this day when he sets his mind.

His mother told him off, explained that it was naughty, removed his toys and sent him to the naughty corner. Every single one of those was a complete and utter failure. Then, after one more spectacular event of cat baiting he was turned upside down and had his backside firmly paddled.

Thereafter the cat was perfectly safe.

This was in Scotland. Where there were already restrictions on physical chastisement at the time. My daughter's take on it? If they don't want him to be smacked, they can find a way to stop him because I'm out of ideas.

My take?

Removing reasonable physical chastisement means that parents have no other recourse than to resort to psychological warfare. I don't know about you, but I think the marks of a quiet smack, here and there, are long gone before the scars of psychological warfare wear off!

[meriad]

One of my Grandchildren went through a stage of being a little monster to the cat, when he was three. He kept locking it in small spaces, pouring hot water on it and a range of other "not nice" things. He was determined, as he is to this day when he sets his mind.

Jeez, that's quite scary - please tell me he's a nice kid now

My take?

Removing reasonable physical chastisement means that parents have no other recourse than to resort to psychological warfare. I don't know about you, but I think the marks of a quiet smack, here and there, are long gone before the scars of psychological warfare wear off!

100% agree

[Suff]

Ria, he's a really great young man now. But there is still the undercurrent of disregard for law and custom which has to be repressed. A firm hand is always needed.

He's always had a great work ethic but doesn't see boundaries the same way most do.

He and his cousin vie for my favourite Grandchild position. So far it is a close tie.