Free speech - are the lines being drawn?

[Workingman]

Free speech is available to all so long as what you think, write or say agrees with the consensus approved by the self-elected and unnamed agenda setters.

A group of authors, academics and various commentators and observers have written an open letter condemning the “vogue for public shaming”, the ‘cancel culture’ and calls for "swift and severe retribution".

Well done them. We need open debate and quite a lot of give and take even if some of it offends the "professionally offended on behalf of everyone" brigades. However, my bet is that by the end of the day there will be calls for all of them to be hung, drawn and quartered for daring to say such things.

The full letter is here: Harper's.

[Suff]

Well so long as we can think what we like and have a free vote (and use it), then we can rebalace everything.

For instance Starmer, submitting himself to "re-education" because he didn't automatically say the "right thing", should automatically remove a Labour vote from any free thinking person.

Not telling the pollsters the truth is also another pillar in the "free vote" hierarchy.

#1 son has been sent on a police diversity course twice now. The second time his management was told not to send him back. Why? Because every time they said something so stupid that it invited ridicule, he laughed at them.

Notably no member of the public has EVER complained about him. Only his ultra politically correct colleagues.

[medsec222]

It seems we are heading towards a culture of fear.

[Workingman]

Well so long as we can think what we like and have a free vote (and use it), then we can rebalace everything.

No we can't. It has gone way past politics and votes, it is in every facet of our lives. Everything is now a binary choice. If you are not fully behind some cause you are automatically against, there is no such thing as being neutral any more. And if you are not fully paid up there is a bandwagon full of supporters just waiting to spit their vitriol all over you.

Anybody who does not agree with a right wing view of anything is a pinko, commie, Marxist, totalitarian traitor.

Anybody who does not agree with a left wing view of anything is a gammony, fascist, xenophonic, racist traitor.

Anybody who does agrees with a centre view is a commie, fascist, Nazi, anti-Semitic Islamist, transgender homophobe with halitosis - and also a traitor.

No debate is required just throw the epithets out there against those who do not share your view and watch the up votes come in from the various echo chambers.

As Meds says, it is a culture of fear - fear to not be part of the crowd.

[cromwell]

It seems we are heading towards a culture of fear.

Certainly intimidation has been used on a big scale to shut people up; especially in the public sector.

We have become (or certainly younger generations have become) absolutists.
They haven't been taught how to think for themselves, they have been taught what it is correct for them to believe.

So when they run up against a contrary opinion they have no recourse, no fall back argument.
The other side doesn't agree with them so the other side is obviously wrong and their views can be dismissed and ridiculed.

Free speech went a long time since and the freedom to speak that we enjoyed years since isn't coming back.

[Suff]

True, but when you get into that voting booth, there is nobody shouting at you or spitting on you.

The thing is people need to learn to ignore all that and vote for what they really want and if nobody is willing to offer what they do want, then vote against it.

If we don't have a free vote then that is an entirely different situation.

In the end it is what we vote for that we get.

[Workingman]

Voting?

Where did we get to vote on toppling statues, bending the knee, multi-culti adverts everywhere, trans males going into female toilets and vice-versa, L'Oreal removing words such a 'whitening' from products, techies not using 'master' and 'slave' or asking for a coffee without milk instead of a black coffee?

This has gone way, way, way past politics and voting for or against things. These 'rules' are now imposed by the faceless ones, the influencers, those with agendas. We didn't get to vote them in and there is no way to vote them out

Cromwell has it when he says about some of us:

They haven't been taught how to think for themselves, they have been taught what it is correct for them to believe.

So when they run up against a contrary opinion they have no recourse, no fall back argument.

Social media echo chambers have their parts to play, yes, but the truth is that it is down to education, or lack of it. We do not do comprehension or analysis any more, we do 'acceptance'. You accept or you are wrong.

[Suff]

Voting?

Where did we get to vote on toppling statues, bending the knee,

Because, so long as we have a free vote, you can ignore that BS and just vote to change things.

Don't like your statues being toppled? Vote for the Councillors who say they will stop it. Don't like the racism of making ethnic minorities more important than everyone else? Vote for the party which says "I don't like it either".

You don't even have to like who you vote for, you just need the shock value and the "communication" value of the vote.

We had that in December. That vote shocked the hell out of one hell of a lot of people, most of the establishment and almost all of the press and media. It means that people with a vote ignored the noise, bided their time and voted for what they wanted.

Now the people, having learned that lesson, need to apply it to other issues such as toppling statues and being forced to bend the knee and apologise for something they had nothing to do with and, in no way, agreed with.

Let us see if our voters can evolve.

Because if they can the minority pressure groups who think they can do what they want are in for another heart stopping shock.

That is where you get to voting. It is the core of our democracy and people still think you can get the result you want by not voting.

Time to end that fallacy. Do or be done to. Voting is Doing. You don't need to talk about it, protest about it, shout at the press or anything else. You just listen, take it all in, decide who stands for what you believe in and simply vote.

Even better is to refuse to talk to the pollsters and just let them keep pushing out their twisted analysis.

That is the most powerful thing in the world and it is treated as if it is nothing, optional, disguardable and things will carry on as you want.

[Workingman]

Suff I do understand why you want to make it political, but it isn't. We have always had political ideology and always will have. For some a party could put up a donkey eating a carrot as a candidate and they would vote it in. They often do - red and blue. What we have now is different.

If you go read the letter is has little to do with politics and almost everything to do with social justice warriors (SJW) and virtues signallers (VS) shutting down debate on a whole range of subjects - every day life subjects that have nothing to do with politics; and there is a delicious irony to it. These authors of the letter are generally from the arts and entertainment and sports and it is their peers who are often the swiftest to jump on any passing bandwagon and then be the most vocal once on board. Emma Thompson, Emma Watson, Raheem Stirling, Gary Lineker, Eamonn Holmes or Lewis Hamilton ring any bells?

What you are talking about is a totally different issue from the ones raised in the letter.

We can vote in a council and a parliament with 100% of councillors and 100% of MPs all 100% against the toppling of statues and that solves the problem does it? It might, until reality kicks in and a group of SJWs turn up with a chain hitched to a 4 x 4 and bring Nelson's column down. And they could do it because they believe it is right and they do not give a stuff what we voted for.

[medsec222]

I have to agree with you Frank. Glancing at a newspaper report this morning, it seems Twitter followers have ganged up on an actress and are calling for her series to be cancelled. The reason they give is that her boyfriend voted for the Republican Party in the last election.