Sinking ship! Rats! JUMP!

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Re: Sinking ship! Rats! JUMP!

Postby Suff » 14 Nov 2020, 13:38

cromwell wrote:
Workingman wrote:A far as Carrie goes, yes she could be acting because she is concerned for Boris' health - but she could also be a bit of a Lady Macbeth, who knows?! :lol:


Then again, she could come from a family with political ties, have worked most of her working life for the Conservative party and had, in the past, been head of communications for the Conservative party.

And therefore have an informed opinion. Which might be respected by Bojo.

There appear to be multiple versions of the Leave taking and only one will be correct. Literally everyone has an axe to grind over this one.

Farage is going around saying that Cummings was never for Leave but more for vote leave and then negotiate.

If you believe Farage, Cummings leaving could be an entirely different connotation than the one being touted by the press.

One thing is certain, six months from now we will know most of the truth.
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Re: Sinking ship! Rats! JUMP!

Postby Workingman » 14 Nov 2020, 14:56

I wonder what part the appointment of Allegra Stratton has played in all this.

She is about to become the new "talking head" at the government's daily press briefings. She has been a political journalist for many years and held senior posts on programmes such as Newsnight, News at Ten and as political correspondent for C4. She has worked alongside and knows how to handle the likes of Kuenssberg, Peston, Rigby, Maitlis, Marr, Ridge et al, and she has been seen on shows such as Question Time and the Daily Politics. She is comfortable in front of camera, something that eludes most politicians.

It could be that she might be too much of her own woman to be controlled by the SPADs. Also, having worked for the Times, New Statesman, Independent and Guardian, she might be seen as a bit too "soft" left for some of the hawks. ;)

BTW Suff, the Lady MacBeth thing is from Cromwell not me. :D
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Re: Sinking ship! Rats! JUMP!

Postby Suff » 14 Nov 2020, 16:21

Sorry, copy paste on a mobile... :oops:
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Re: Sinking ship! Rats! JUMP!

Postby cromwell » 15 Nov 2020, 10:59

I'm a bit flummoxed by all this. On the one hand the fall out has it's funny side, on the other well there is a country to run you know?

Apparently the Cummings camp referred to Carrie Symonds as "Princess Nut nut". Because she acted liked a Princess, was nuts and looked like a squirrel. Very funny, but how smart is it to mock the boss's girlfriend? I think they just found out.
Then they accused her of bombarding Boris with up to 25 texts an hour! Also that since his illness Boris has lost his powers of concentration (getting 25 texts an hour, no wonder). The Cummings lot have also accused Boris of dithering and having to go to Michael Gove to get a decision.

Cummings worked for Gove before he worked for Boris. Which leads to the question of where his loyalties actually lay, to the PM or to Gove? The culling of the Cummings camp weakens Gove, it seems to me.

The story goes that various texts were sent which were less than flattering to Boris, and that someone forwarded them to Carrie who showed them to Boris. Inside 24 hours Cummings and his mate Lee Whatsit were out of the door. I didn't know before now the Cameron had referred to Cummings as "a career psychopath".

So where does that leave us? The Vote Leave influence greatly reduced, the power of women like Allegra Stratton and Carrie Symonds increased and probably the PM moving back towards the centre. A definite lessening of Gove's power which might be interesting come the next lockdown decision, as he and Cummings were hard lockdown men.

Johnson is going to need someone in to replace Cummings as I believe that bit about Boris's lack of concentration. Hopefully it will be someone who will come to do the job rather than scheme and plot, or run around backstabbing and carrying tales.

I do sometimes wish politics would go back to being boring!
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Re: Sinking ship! Rats! JUMP!

Postby Workingman » 15 Nov 2020, 12:33

Stratton and Symonds have operated in the same circles for at least a decade; Stratton as a journalist, Symonds as communications officer for the Conservatives. Stratton once worked for the Independent the newspaper founded by Symonds' father and although seven years separate them they both attended Latymer school. Circles within circles.

Johnson has appointed Ed Lister, Baron Ed Lister, as his interim chief adviser. The PM and Lister have worked together for many a year with the later as leader of Wandsworth council and also Deputy Mayor of London for Policy when Johnson was Mayor and also his deputy at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

He is not exactly a controversy-free zone having pocketed £480k from a developer when he was chairman of Homes England. That quango was supposed to oversee the provision of affordable homes yet the developer only delivered 7% of its portfolio. Then there is the Westferry / Tower Hamlets thing and Robert Jenryk.... It is also rumoured that Lister and Gove do not get on as they are like oil and water.
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Re: Sinking ship! Rats! JUMP!

Postby Suff » 15 Nov 2020, 12:34

Yes it does bring into focus the oft quoted, but false, Chinese curse of "may you live in interesting times".

Yesterday certain press in the UK and the EU were going their mile about how this was just the opening moves in a Bojo climb down on a trade deal.

Today we hear that Bojo is the hardest person in the room against a trade deal in its current state.

The we hear the cabinet is fairly supportive of Bojo whatever is decided.

To cap it off, a senior Tory donor says "well they might as well just walk away because the deal on the table doesn't include any services, only manufactured goods" and our services industry is larger than manufacturing and a huge component of our exports to the EU.

Honestly, if there were not tension in #10 right now, I would wonder if they had any competence at all.

As for 25 texts per hour being quoted in the press? If you treat each sentence in WhatsApp as a text, Hi, OK and :o are each one text. I remember when a friend's daughter in Uni ran up a £2,500 bill, in one month, on texts like that, because her boyfriend had unlimited texts and she responded to every one liner.

The problem, right now, with press statements on the government, is that there is no middle ground and every article is polarised.

I prefer to view it through a filter of gain and loss. If the article is presenting action which is a zero sum game or even a net loss, it is probably wrong or, at best, highly spun.

I have no intention of taking any press articles on the government at face value until at least April.

By then all the pressure over negotiations, Covid and the US elections will be firmly in the rear view mirror, Covid exit strategies will be fully engaged, lock downs should be over or, at worst, going away and everyone should be looking to the future and how to make it work.

Idealistic, I know, but it is a target to aim for. It helps maintain a balance and a bit of sanity.
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Re: Sinking ship! Rats! JUMP!

Postby Suff » 15 Nov 2020, 12:36

And, no, I was not going to try and open up discussions on deal, etc, with that post, just to highlight pressures and how expectations are being set by the press.
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Re: Sinking ship! Rats! JUMP!

Postby Workingman » 15 Nov 2020, 13:56

Suff, you cannot seriously blame the press for speculating about what is going on in the heart of government when the facts come out that within a period of 24 hrs two senior aides resign (or are removed) and neither side gives reasons as to how and why. When such things are happening with all the other things you mention going on it is even more important that we have clarity - from either side. If that is not forthcoming then it is only natural for speculation to take place.

It is rather interesting that variations on all these tittle-tattle tales are in papers across the board - from left to right. And when you look at the blogs you see people from all sides of the political spectrum are wanting answers. It is also interesting to note that the Mail and Telegraph are main ones asking questions about Johnson's future. There are stories that the 1922 Committee is already receiving letters - 55 needed - to oust Johnson, that's how serious this latest fiasco has become.
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Re: Sinking ship! Rats! JUMP!

Postby Suff » 15 Nov 2020, 14:40

WM, when a dog cocks its leg and waters a lamppost, it is not vandalism.

I just ignore the hobby horse speculation, from both sides.

As for the 1922 commission receiving letters? There are over 100 remainers on the Tory ranks, of course they continue to try to remove him, just as the leavers ousted May in the end.

Whilst ousting May created a historic victory for the Tories, ousting Johnson now would precipitate a cataclysmic disaster of epic proportions for the Tory party.

Press twittering aside, I assume that the 1922 commission is not suicidal. Nor, I assume, are the ministers.

I posted, a while ago, about how Johnson ran the Mayor of London's office. You are given a job and the power to deliver it. You are also held accountable for delivery.

That accountability is coming home to roost.

I know it is not normally how Westminster and #10 work, but think of it more like "The Apprentice", irony intended.
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Re: Sinking ship! Rats! JUMP!

Postby Workingman » 15 Nov 2020, 16:54

Suff wrote:..... ousting Johnson now would precipitate a cataclysmic disaster of epic proportions for the Tory party.

That might have been true during his honeymoon period, but today? His current approval rating with the general public is standing at 34% and that's down from a high of 67% and is steadily dropping. Make no mistake - Johnson is now expendable.

He might still be popular with the blue rinse brigade and Tory fanboys and girls, but they are only a tiny fraction of the general electorate and the Tory grandees know this. The Tories are not known for being sentimental....
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