Hospital waiting lists

[Suff]

I guess it is what drives those headline figures WM.

What I see is money and attempts to work around the money problem by making it our problem.

That, for me, is not what the NHS is supposed to be what it is about. If it costs more charge us more. It is paid by taxes, not NI, increase the taxes exactly what it takes and ringfence it. Most people would be OK with that. But most people would also want an accounting.

The NHS is one vast money sink that leaks money everywhere but nobody is in control. It is us, who pay for it in the end, who are impacted. Nobody in government wants anyone to look too closely at the figures.

There is nothing wrong with asking the questions and demanding an answer. But with Covid the NHS has been held up as this wonderful institution without which we would all be dead. So demanding answers is not an option.

Something has to change and it would be better if it did not take another 2 decades and 4 governments.

[Workingman]

I could go on about my brother, father, ex Mil. All of them died because those treating them were not automatons, they were humans. They worked with the medical resources available to them and might have made a wrong decisions, we all do. They were under pressure to do the right thing and they got it wrong at a critical time. I absolutely will not persecute them because they tried their best.

Do not conflate them with the bean counters and non-medical managers. They are not the NHS. Mind you, the interface between them needs a lot of work.

[Suff]

NHS has policy makers and accountants just like anyone else. Policy is made to allow for the budget.

This has little to do with frontline staff, but it has everything to do with waiting lists. Where BMI is concerned, this is policy which is being driven to cut costs. Don't fit the model, tough, you don't get on the waiting list. Smoke? Tough. Drink, starting to become a problem. It is a slippery slope.

I knew about the BMI ruling nearly a decade ago.

[Workingman]

The NHS is one of the world's best institutions ever invented. If people don't like it they can opt out - there is a choice. It's strange, though, how they all come running back when things private are not, ahem, perfect.

But if you do use the NHS and rely on it, as per most of us, you have to accept that it has its limits and that mistakes will sometimes be made. For the majority of us and for most of the time it works brilliantly: we accept it.

There is no such thing as a mistake free world, not even in the private sector. If anyone wants to take that route nothing is stopping them, just don't come crying and crawling back to the NHS to pick up the pieces. It is what you often do.

Unfortunately that is what many do.

[Suff]

Yes, WM, it provides a service few places in the world can compete with.

That being said, certain changes over the last two decades are a cause for concern.

There is also a problem with negligence, I do understand that a system which employs nearly 1.5 million people will not be mistake or negligence free.

But they have to try and they have to be seen to try. I have seen that lacking in the last two decades and it is getting worse, not better.

Hence the huge waiting list question.

Just because it does so much good should not indemnify it from the bad or worsening nature of the service.

[Workingman]

But they have to try and they have to be seen to try. I have seen that lacking in the last two decades and it is getting worse, not better.

Disagree.

[Suff]

Disagree.

So you think "care in the community" for mental health cases, with no community support, was trying?

To quote one ex FD from the NHS "they have just abandoned them to a horrible fate".

They do have to try and it has to be visible. Granted, for him, it was personal too and he had to pay for the care the NHS was not willing to give, so had direct first hand knowledge.

I'm sure that you would like to discount personal experience, where people have an axe to grind, but it becomes harder and harder as those experiences mount up.

[Workingman]

Siff, I do understand.

An organisation the size of the NHS treating millions of people 24/7/365 will make mistakes. Some of those on the receiving end have sore open wounds that will never heal, as in your case.

All I am trying to say is that for the most part, and for the vast majority of us, the NHS does a good job and we would never, ever, want to do without it.

That is not to say that it is perfect. There are parts of it that need a damned good seeing to, especially on the management and admin side. Even its most ardent supporters agree on that.

[cruiser2]

I and my wie have both ahd good treatment from the NHS.
I had catarcts removed before the pandemic started. Now have good eyesight and don't need to wear glassess.

Mrs.e had afall over two years ago in the house and broke her hip. Had a hip replacement as it was an emergency .
After her fall in August 2020 again she had good treatment ad follow up examinations.
Good service from our GP when she started losing weight with Xray, blood test and CT scan which showed mrs.e had cancer.
Our Gp ame to the house to discuss possible tratment and arranged for District nurses to come to the house.
So we can't complain but I know other people have not been so lucky.

[Suff]

This is the problem cruiser and WM. Lucky. There should be no luck involved in this and that is like salt under the skin.

I know just how hard my daughter works to try and juggle the books to meet the next "policy" decision which is even more impossible to meet.

I, also, have had excellent and sympathetic treatment in the NHS but not before I put my foot down, insisted on treatment in Edinburgh and got one of the best urology consults in the country.

It should not have to be like that. Just as, when the doctors nearly destroyed my brothers liver with their drugs regime, he wound up with the consultant who gave George Best his new liver. His treatment, since then, has been outstanding.

It is not just hard for me to see the good that is done. When member after member of Mrs S' family went into Ninewells hospital for small problems and died, one after the other, with overwhelming sepsis, it becomes even harder to see the upside.

As you say, it is a big system and it is virtually impossible to make it all run perfectly. But, in terms of health, they do have to try.

When my daughter went private to get a varicous vein sorted out, due to the 3 year waiting list to see a consultant, she came back into the office and said "I have a solution for you which will make the patients feel they are getting a better service and it will not cost a single penny. When a patient comes in and talks to you; smile".