Centrist Cranks.

[Workingman]

That is what Suella Braverman has called them, but there are not many of them in the race for the Con leadership, only Tom Tugendhat.

The rest, Braverman, Patel, Badenoch and Jenrick are all hard right; and do not write off the opportunistic shyster, Farage, who might cross the floor.

This leaves a huge hole in the centre of British politics. Let's hope that some soft L & R other parties and individuals move in. It is where most of us actually sit.

[cromwell]

Should the Conservatives even try to "Unite the party"?
Why not just split instead?

Theresa May was bigged up as being "A safe pair of hands".
Whilst she was in office she signed us up to the United Nations Compact on Global Migration (without any Parliamentary debate)
Signed Net Zero into law (without any Parliamentary debate)
and passed the Modern Slavery Act, which is used by every illegal imigrant to help them stay in the country.

Try as I might I can't see anything remotely conservative in any of the above; so as I say, why not just split the party?

[medsec222]

Perhaps that is the way to go Cromwell. They have been fighting like rats in a sack since Theresa May was PM. Even the 80 MP majority didnt' stop them squabbling until it finally lost them the election. They now will be asking themselves why they lost the election. Many commentators have aired the opinion that the Party somehow had lost its 'conservative values' and had gone too much towards the left. Now they have to balance whether they go back towards the right against the fact the history deems that elections are won from the centre ground. In the end a dithering Party is no good to anyone, least of all themselves.

[cromwell]

I'm not sure that I buy into the "elections are won from the centre ground", Meds; at least from the Conservative perspective.

In the last thirty years we have had the following Conservative centrists.

Major, Hague and Howard, who all lost to Tony Blair.
David Cameron scraped a win against Gordon Brown in 2010 but had to rule in a coalition with the LibDems.
In 2015 Cameron beat Ed Miliband and had a majority of 12 seats.
In 2017 Theresa May lost Cameron's majority.

In 2019 Boris johnson - who whatever else he may have been is no one's idea of a centrist - got a majority of 80 seats.

And just this month Rishi Sunak, the absolute dead centre of centrism, contrived to lose Johnson's majority and hand Keir Starmer a super majority.
Custer had a better result against Sitting Bull than Sunak had against Starmer.

So in the last thirty years Conservative centrism has delivered four defeats, one minority government, one coalition and one small majority.
When they departed from centrism they won a large majority.

The people in the Parliamentary Conservative party who are always saying that elections are won from the centre ground are themselves of that centre ground; they have a considerable amount of self interest in the continuing leftward drift of the Conservative party.

They are trying to establish and retain control of the future direction of conservatism.

[medsec222]

I think the membership would probably prefer a move to centre right. Listening to some of the tv broadcasts there is some opinion that Labour and Conservatives are two sides of the same backside. Globalists, pro-EU, pro-WHO, with perhaps some powers devolving to these organisations away from our elected Parliament.

I was listening to Ben Habib and I like a lot of what he has to say. He is very much for protecting our borders first and formost. Many of those who previously voted Conservative probably would have voted Reform because of that. It is a pity he wasn't able to secure a seat in Parliament and I wish him better luck next time. Nigel has reshuffled and Ben is no longer deputy chairman. I can see the logic of this but he is an asset to Reform, sensible and able to debate well and without rancour. I hope he has better luck next time. However, he is a very successful businenessman so it is Reform's loss.

[cromwell]

I think the membership would probably prefer a move to centre right.

I would agree; and this does beg the question that if the Parliamentary Conservative party does not reflect the views of the wider party then why are they sitting as conservatives?

Listening to some of the tv broadcasts there is some opinion that Labour and Conservatives are two sides of the same backside. Globalists, pro-EU, pro-WHO, with perhaps some powers devolving to these organisations away from our elected Parliament.

There's even a name for it Meds - the Uniparty.
As it stands if you vote for any of Labour, Conservative or LibDem you are voting for mass immigration, an enlarged state, high taxes and net zero.

[medsec222]

[/quote] As it stands if you vote for any of Labour, Conservative or LibDem you are voting for mass immigration, an enlarged state, high taxes and net zero.[/quote]


I suspect that a fair proportion of the electorate don't want any of these things. But with the two party system this is what we are landed with.

[cromwell]

Which is why such people must start voting outside the mainstream.

[medsec222]

Small steps Cromwell

Interestingly I have just watched Nigel Farage's maiden speech in Parliament. I think it fair to say he does like attention and taking the centre stage - he admitted that himself. However, he gives his opinion quite forceably as he sees it and its up to the listener to make their own judgements. His words do resonate with a lot of voters regarding immigration and the likelihood of the problem getting increasingly worse. He may not be everyone's cup of tea but he doesn't hurl buckets of whitewash at the electorate as is par for the course for many in successive Conservative and Labour governments. The public is not as gullilble as it once was.

The habit of hurling buckets of whitewash at the voters is also evidenced in the US by the democratic party and the main stream media, who have been trying to fool the public for years that Joe Biden is fit and well enough to go for a second term. They have finally admitted what everyone else has known for months that Joe Biden has been failing cognitively over a number of years and that more than likely has a form of Parkinsonism. They have done Joe Biden a great disservice.

[Workingman]

Well now. Tom Tugendhat, who is a centrist on the left of the Cons, but still on the right let's not forget, has the best rating with the public of, wait for it, -3. Patel and Braverman, the hard right, are at -28 and -23 respectively.

They might as well defect to Reform PLC (Ltd or whatever it is today) where they might get some votes from the xenophobes. Fartcage, the ultra-opportunist with no political ideology - where the wind blows, is only on -14.

It's strange how one can be the 'most popular' with a negative rating.