Trump or Musk

[TheOstrich]

If elected, which will prove to be the most dangerous to our (so-called) Western ideals?

[Workingman]

Musk isn't standing, is he?

Trump is a loon, we all know that. Musk is a Hitler, Stalin and Genghis Khan trooper rolled into one. A 24 carat prat.

He is a danger to us all... but the media love him. He's rich, you see, a sort of Taylor Swift in a suit.

[cromwell]

Os, why are you assuming that either of them are a danger?

[Workingman]

I cannot answer for Ossie, but please see my earlier response.

Musk is a very dangerous individual with his views and riches. He represents me not one bit, but he does have his deluded followers.

[TheOstrich]

I appreciate Musk isn't a candidate as such, but he has palpably formed an "Axis of Evil" with Trump and his campaign over the last few weeks, from appearing with him on stage, running his own Trump-supporting "town hall" meetings, and arguably bribing the electorate in swing states with his so-called voter-registration lottery.

Is it an "Axis of Evil", Crommers asks, which is a fair question, but in my book, the answer is yes, potentially more insiduous and as damaging to Western ideals than Russia and Iran.

Trump has threatened, win or lose, retribution against his many opponents within the United States. It is being said that he has all the makings of an authoritarian fascist. It is speculated he will give Israel a free pass in the Middle East, and whilst you can argue Biden has already done that, once the election is over, all bets are off, and I wouldn't be surprised if Harris doesn't turn the screws on Israel. Trump is unlikely to do that. Trump is in contact, reportedly, with Putin and the concern is he will force Ukraine to the negotiating table, like it or not. That isn't going to end well for Ukraine. Trump has demonstrated a contempt for NATO and neither the UK or Europe can rely on his support. Both are (belatedly) now actively looking at "Trump-proofing" their defences. Trump will go back to imposing punitive trade tarrifs as part of America's protectionism policies. We've already seen that in his last Presidency.

Musk is using his influence and his money to support Trump. What does he want in return? Unfettered regulation to run his own brand of big business, not only in America but across the world. He contols important sections of the media, and can manipulate the narrative. We've already seen the effect on the bosses of other independent news providers like the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post who are keeping heads below the parapet. Musk has also been in conversation, allegedly, with Putin. Musk controls Starlink and could turn off the system over Ukraine at a moment's notice. Musk is a loose cannon who has no love for the UK, witness his recent interference in our own political affairs. Musk has the clout via his stake in Tesla to manipulate both our and Europe's electric vehicle markets. Do we trust him to "play fair"?

Both these guys are bad news to Western democratic values and ultimately to you and me. As someone cryptically remarked on another forum regarding a potential Republican victory: "God help the world if he gets in.........."

[Kaz]

No one man should have as much power as these two have, without the checks and balances that democracy is supposed to afford. The US seem to regard a President as untouchable - if they didn't, Trump would have been in prison ages ago. Musk seems to think it's ok to try to undermine OUR democracy by his comments and actions, and when challenged throws temper tantrums - he called that cave rescue man a paedophile when his silly submarine idea was refused, let us not forget.

They're both unhinged individuals, with huge amounts of power, which does make them volatile, and therefore highly dangerous.

[Kaz]

Ossie I agree with so much of what you've said there, very well put.

[Suff]

Erm, in case you haven't been following anything other than the ridiculous crap in the UK press and Media, the media HATE Musk.

Musk is not Hitler or Stalin or any of those things. He's an aspergers sufferer who is an engineering savant and uses his skill and knowledge to build companies to meet his goals. Because he is so damned good at it he has become the richest man in the world.

But this doesn't give him power. Oh he has the ear of over 200 million people but there is not one single thing he can say that anyone MUST do unless they work for one of is companies.

It is so bad that the latest little hit piece of total BS from the WSJ is being triggered across every network as a "you can't vote for trump he has this monster". The Russia link died a death with Trump so it turns up 10 DAYS before the election as a Musk thing.

Are you kidding me. Then they come out and say Musk switched off Taiwan as a favour to Putin. 15 freaking months ago Taiwan demanded 51% of Starlink ownership in Taiwan or they refused to allow SpaceX to operate Starlink there. Then seven months ago Taiwan categorically said they would never allow a license for Starlink to operate there because they were going to create their own satellite internet service which they own 100%. If you know Anything, like any single thing, about satellite internet you will know that they have chosen to go with the old crappy standard geosynchronous satellite service which is impossible to use for 85% of the stuff we use Starlink for.

Are you all glad to know that the press and media trot out the most ridiculous lies about Musk and you just lap them up.

This is a person you know nothing about, have taken no time to learn anything about except for reading 99% wrong press and media articles and you take this position.

My question is this. When, not if, you find out you were manipulated, will you have the integrity to feel ashamed about it?

https://x.com/SpaceX/status/1849956344691912873

This is as close to "they are a bunch of liars" as SpaceX the company can get.

BTW you know who is going to put the Taiwanese internet satellites in space? I'll give you one guess.

[Suff]

Ossie, if Trump is elected Musk will be offered a position in the government. It will be to review inefficient spending and suggest changes somewhat like Milei is doing in Argentina.

This is a danger to Democracy? I thought you were all for government accountability and openness and oversight?

As for Harris? She is literally saying she will dismantle both the first and second amendments where she wants them to be dismantled. Literally. She is presenting her agenda as obstructing any way for identity to be a requirement to either register to vote or vote. California, her state, has just passed a law outlawing a requirement for proof of ID to register to vote.

Harris is also on record as intending to fast track citizenship for 20m illegal immigrants. Many of whom were flown into the US using an app that allows them to come in without any identity. 13m of these illegals were allowed in on her watch in the last 3 years. Once they get citizenship they will, of course, be able to vote. The vast majority of them are now residing in swing states.

Rather than ask, I'll tell you. The number of votes separating the two candidates in a US Presidential election has rarely been as large as 13m, let alone 20m.

You sit there talking about "Democracy" and how Musk and Trump are a threat to it. You only see what you are being fed and what you are being fed is what those who control Harris want you to see.

But don't mind me. Choose to believe what you will. It took two hurricanes for Americans to wake up and realise what is going on. Since then the vote has been trending further and further to Trump and the following image has not been forgotten.



Oh it was dismissed as "absentee ballot" results.... I recall a locker with boxes of ballots found in it after the election in the midlands.

[cromwell]

Crikey, where to start?

If I was Mr Pedantic I would ask, what are our "Western ideals"? But I think we could argue for a week and still be no nearer at the end of the week. Seventy years ago, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, policing by consent, strong borders and a unified society. Not these days though.

Where does all this Trump hate come from? Seriously?
I come from a different direction.
If there is a mass pile on onto one person in the media, I ask myself why this is. Why does no one have a good word for this person? Especially when there seems to be no reason for it. Donald Trump may be this, that and the other but imo that's not why he is pilloried.
Progressive / liberal / globalism values are that mass immigration is an unalloyed benefit, that exporting your industries to the third world is OK and that green is the way to go.
Trump stands against all that; and that is the reason that he is villified, that is the reason that hate is stoked up against him and that is the reason why people try to murder him. It's not what he is as a man that brings the tsunami of abuse, it's what he stands against.
NATO? Yes, Trump doesn't care much for it. Because the USA has been carrying Europe in defence terms for many years. Neither was Obama, who criticised Europe as "free riders" in NATO because they didn't pay their whack. We seem to have forgotten this?

Musk's great sin was that he bought Twitter.
At the time that he bought it Twitter was a Liberal site who tolerated no conservative views.
Trump was banned from Twitter, Katie Hopkins was banned from Twitter, Laurence Fox was banned from Twitter; any number of conservative posters were banned from Twitter. But when Musk bought Twitter, he let them back on; he gave those conservative voices air time once more. What an evil guy, eh?
So, is free speech a bad thing? Or do we only agree with it when the speech marries up with our own thoughts?

Yes, Musk can come out with some statements with which i wouldn't agree. And?
There is as Suff says, a media campaign against him. many snidey little digs.
As for him being able to manipulate the EV market, I think that the Chinese state subsidised EV industry, with it's intentions to dump their surplus onto Europe at knock down prices, is rather more capable of market manipulation than Elon Musk is.

It seems to be very easy to stir up hate against someone.
For myself I think that Kamala Harris has in the words of Mel Gibson "the IQ of a fence post". But she gets a free pass from our broadcast media, so I guess the hate won't be built up against her; and I'm actually glad about that.