Syria

[KateLMead]

Lets hope the British public show a bit of strength when it comes to voting for the withdrawal from the EU Frank. And let us remember that the Americans certainly helped us with intelligence in the last war, however it took the Japs attacking Pearl Harbour before they truly came to our aid.. What a great country and peoples we were in those days.. I think every MP has a power complex the sad thing is that they don't have the brains or guts to rule or make important decisions.. We need to look at the lack of care and concern for our troops who have been maimed physically and mentally following their postings to Iraq and Afghanistan. My heart aches for the homeless and dispossessed hence primarily I felt we ought to take action, however reading posts and the news I have changed my mind, As you mentioned we have not seen any of the Arab states running to protect the Syrians from the atrocities being inflicted on them.

[Workingman]

Kate, I was not trying to get anyone to change their minds, all that I was attempting was to provide an alternative view to the one being presented to us by the British media.

I have been thinking about Tartus and the Russian ships. It is unlikely that they do not have some sort of ship-to-air capability, but even it they do not the Russians certainly have the airlift ability to get some there PDQ.

Now I am thinking about the situation at the UN. Russia (maybe China) has made it clear that it will veto any form of military intervention. The US says that if there is no UN resolution it will go it alone, or with a coalition of France plus others. There is no meeting of minds.

Well, here is a scenario I do not want to see. The US fires Tomahawk cruise missiles at Syria from a safe stand-off position. Russian ship-to-air/surface-to-air defences bring them down. Then what? It is not too far fetched given that Putin has demanded that the US provides uncontroversial proof to the UN that the Assad regime made the CW attacks.

[pederito1]

Of course the yanks have not attacked anyone fresh for ages now and they must be chomping at the bit and raring to go. I expect too that some of their vast stock of diabolical weapons must be at or near their use by date and have to be dropped somewhere. When will the West learn that intervention in a civil war and setting up a puppet regime is not a recipe for long term success, unless you believe that hundreds of thousands of deaths and one or more daily car bombs constitute one. There seem to be two possibilities for success, one side should win convincingly as in America and Spain or both get to see eventually there are other things in life than fighting and agree to compromise.

[cromwell]

Long post, please bear with me.
A while ago, the LibDem MP Danny Alexander scoffed at the prospect of withdrawing from the EU, saying it would make the UK "like Norway".
Now, a normal person might think "What? Like a small population, independent and fabulously wealthy? Yep, I'm up for some of that, where do I sign?".
But that isn't what Alexander meant - because politicians don't think like normal people.
He meant - Norway isn't "sitting at the big table". Norway isn't "At the heart of Europe". a Norwegian politician is seen as a country hick, a less important politician.

And I'm afraid we are seeing exactly the same sort of political vanity from some of the political "Bomb Syria" camp.
"Lord" Paddy Ashdown on the decision not to lob cruise missiles into Syria - "It diminishes our country hugely".
Dr Alan Mendoza, Think Tank Director - "This vote will mean the UK will join the rank of third rate nations"
Brooks Newmark, Labour - "This will diminish our standing in the world".
And many more, in the same vein.

Well I'm quite happy to be less important, because we won't be responsible for killing and maiming Syrian children and their parents.
If Paddy Ashdown and co. are upset because their todger just lost half an inch in the great game of international willy waving, too bad.
But what strikes me is the contrast between their vanity, their egos and the damage that this can cause. As a class, they are dangerous and out of touch with the British public.

PS - Nice to see Tony Blair getting it stuffed right up him, too.

[TheOstrich]

Interesting that Obama has taken a step backwards tonight and has allowed that he will seek the authority of Congress before proceeding ... and that won't be before 9th September.

I wonder why he's suddenly got cold feet - I know the G20 is coming up, but there must be more to it. I also wonder whether we're going to see it "back on the table" in the House of Commons.

[Workingman]

Syria offers something to Russia which it cannot get anywhere else - a Mediterranean naval base. Come any sort of conflict its Black Sea fleet would have to pass through the NATO held Bosphorus, but during peacetime it can freely move vessels to Tartus in preparation. Maybe Obama is waking up to why Syria is so important to the Russians and why it will not allow the rebels to win.

Russia's only option if the rebels ever take power in Syria will be to create a sort of Gibraltar in the eastern Med and then defend it against all-comers.

At least Barry and Vlad will have a chance to talk it over at the G20 on the 5-6th of September.

[KateLMead]

Well David Cameron was given short shift.. He was left with a sh" legacy in every area by the last government, he appears to have lost the plot in many directions, not helped by that useless waste of space Clegg.. We are in decline as a nation, recovery? well what do you think?

[Kaz]

I am totally in agreement with you Cromwell - I couldn't care less about our 'standing in the world' as long as we have enough wealth to look after ourselves, and are not involved in horrendous conflicts such as those of the past ten years

[pederito1]

I think we need someone far more of a fireball than Cameron, Kate, to set us on the road to recovery. If the yanks had really want to come to our aid why not in 1940 when we could surely have done with it. I know I was there. They really only decided to intervene when they realised they would have to defeat Hitler as well to bust the nips after he declared war on them.

[KateLMead]

As mentioned Pederito, it took the invasion of Pearl Harbour before they really got involved and came to our aid.. They submitted intelligence for us but it ended there. They don't have the best of records as far as wars are concerned, look at Vietnam, and they left us high and dry in Afghanistan..
Not the best of news today when it was confirmed we sold gas chemicals when B'Liar was in power to Assad.. We are anything but squeaky clean...