Dockyard closure

[Suff]

A cynical part of me also suspects that some Westminster politicians, especially Tories, wouldn't be that disappointed in a "Yes" vote given that they have little influence in Scotland anyway.

How could you be disappointed with losing one seat and gaining a majority in the English parliament for years to come so long as you are even slightly reasonable????

Cameron has already touched on this.

[Workingman]

But this is too big for political party game play.

Independence for Scotland should be for the Scots to decide after a careful analysis and open debate of all the pros and cons. Unless they declare as neutral UK parties should be clear on where they stand on the matter and fight that corner. What they should not do is be wishy-washy in public whilst greasing palms or making threats in private.

I do not want Scotland to leave the Union, but I would understand. What would really confuse me, though, is why anyone would chose to create a two party state consisting of the SNP and Labour.... That is very scary.

[cromwell]

BTW Cromwell; Barnbow, in the Tory constituency of Elemet, was shut to keep the AV plants in Tony Blair's neighbouring (Labour) constituencies on the Tyne open. Leeds was one site with its own rail link and the M1 on its doorstep. Newcastle was spread over three sites. Go figure.

Barnbow! I should have remembered that, not least because I played cricket there in the 80's. The pitch was surrounded by a track, shaped like a running track. Easy to get a boundary square of the wicket but the straight boundary was a long carry.

[Suff]

Independence for Scotland should be for the Scots to decide after a careful analysis and open debate of all the pros and cons. .

I agree completely. However it was never to be. The people, generally, don't care to put their pints/shots/alcopops down for long enough and the politico's were never going to leave it alone.

Anyone who thinks that this will be a fairly won battle, representative of the wishes and will of the people, is a Naiif.

Sad but oh so true...

[Workingman]

Anyone who thinks that this will be a fairly won battle, representative of the wishes and will of the people, is a Naiif.

Suff, as you have probably already guessed, I am not confident about the fairness of referendums.

It will be interesting to see how the Scottish one pans out and how the outcome is explained/justified.

[Suff]

It will be interesting to see how the Scottish one pans out and how the outcome is explained/justified.

I'm much more interested in seeing what English attitudes do to the Scottish voting trend. We have already seen one poll which shows more for leaving than for staying. As this unfolds next year I expect the media feeding frenzy to reach fever pitch and I expect that Scots attitudes to what the English press are saying will harden significantly.

All of this will influence the vote. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply in lala land. If the English press and the MP's at Westminster simply shut up and left the Scots to it, they would come back with a NO vote. I'm certain of it. But they won't and that will make the chances of a Yes vote much higher.

It's like the EU running articles in our press about how the UK is all a bunch of wasters anyway and who want's their money anyway if they're such a pain in the ass; all before a referendum on the EU.

The English would be lined up round the block to stick the finger up come voting day.

The Scots are no less proud.

[Workingman]

So long as the Scots do not blame the the ordinary English man and woman. I have yet to meet one who wants the Union to break up, though there obviously are some. But we might be a bit at cross-purposes here.

I was wondering how MPs and the English media would see it. I am betting it will be along the lines of "well, it is what the Scots wanted" and no hint at all of "it is what we forced them into". Both of them will abrogate any responsibility for a "No" vote..........

[Suff]

I was wondering how MPs and the English media would see it. I am betting it will be along the lines of "well, it is what the Scots wanted" and no hint at all of "it is what we forced them into". Both of them will abrogate any responsibility for a "No" vote..........

It will play as they want us to see it. My mother used to call it FlexiTruth. FlexiTruth means the truth is what you want the other person to believe at the time you utter it...

Lots of FlexiTruth going on right now.