School tests for four-year-olds.

[Workingman]

Schools Minister, Gove, wants to initiate formal tests in Reception year to estimate a child's academic abilities in basic literacy, reasoning and cognition.

Formal tests! How are they going to work? They cannot be written tests as most reception pupils cannot read or write. Any reasoning involving 'number' comparisons, so size, distance, speed, etc, will be out of reach of most. And cognition, understanding, can only come from being taught a little simple analysis and problem solving.....

Shouldn't a baseline assessment of a pupil's abilities be done by the teacher monitoring and observing their pupils progression in the first weeks or first half term once they have recieved some form of teaching?

[TheOstrich]

Absolutely! Gove is an idiot.

[Rodo]

They have been doing this kind of thing in America for at least 20 years.

The tests are not written (why do the papers keep showing pictures of a hand writing something?) but consist of simple practical tests such as walking along a straight line, picking up objects or grouping objects by colour. It is the simple kind of thing that many parents do with their children every day, and which neglected children have not learnt how to do. It also of course picks up those children with medical problems which may have slipped through the net. Picked up early enough, a lot can be done to help.

[cromwell]

I think it's more than just that though, Rodo. In my wife's now ex-school the headteacher is trying to get children in nursery writing their name, because Ofsted sees this as a good thing. The fact that the muscles used for writing aren't properly developed at nursery age doesn't seem to occur to Ofsted or Gove.
Listening to his latest proposals, Gove intends to change schools into a cross between a state childminding service and a Chinese sweat shop.
Longer school hours (backed by the Labour party too - they want 08.00 am to 18.00pm) and shorter school holidays.
More testing, more "evidence" gathering (my wife used to have to do 8 grids on her nursery children), more bullying and finger-pointing from Ofsted.

I thought Gove's interview on the Andrew Marr show was pathetic, as was Marr's performance.
They were talking about bad behaviour and the word "parent" was never mentioned.
I don't know; are we seeing the replacement of the family by the state? That question was never asked, nor were the aspects of state childminding and the role of parents repsonsibility for the behaviour of their children. Neither was the question asked if was going to be good for the child to be doing a nine or ten hour school day.
I suppose that their are more parents than there are teachers, so more votes are to be lost if you mention that a lot of the problems that schools face are the result of poor parenting.

As I say, a miserable interview for all manner of reasons.

[Workingman]

Not test then, just the same sort of things we went through with Miss Molloy in St Augustine's Primary in the late 50s. The activities where, over time, it was discovered that I was left-handed, partially colour blind (blue/purple), good with numbers, could read, but with terrible writing, good at drawing and abysmal at drama and music.

All of these things were done to inform the teachers and my parents about where I "was at" as I started school. They were not formal tests, and there was no pass or fail, and I find it hard to believe that the processes were ever dropped and that Gove now wants to reintroduce them, but in a formal way.

It sounds more like Gove wants to put teachers and pupils into another straightjacket in order to be seen to be doing something.

[Rodo]

Cromwell, that is awful about forcing children to write so early, or trying to. There is no sense in that. Mind you, often the parents want it.

My sister-in-law used to teach in a private nursery school years ago. She wasn't qualified by the way. She was told she had to get them writing - they were aged 2½ - 4 years. Nothing changes really.

It is good to get them to draw wavy lines or similar to get the feel of a left to right flow, but not to write their name. That is just awful.

[cromwell]

Cromwell, that is awful about forcing children to write so early, or trying to. There is no sense in that.

No there isn't Rodo. I think that teachers would work longer hours in and out of schools more readily if they thought that what they were being asked to do was for the good. But it isn't, and that's why a lot of recent graduates leave the profession early and why a lot of experienced teachers in their fifties are just walking away from the job.

eta - some are being bullied out too. A teacher at the top of their grade in their fifties can be replaced a lot cheaper by a recent graduate.

[Rodo]

It's a very sad state of affairs all round.

[Kaz]

Absolutely! Gove is an idiot.

Exactly what I was going to say!! The man really is

[KateLMead]

It was in the news some time ago that some children aged four are going to school in napkins. Not even toilet trained.
Some children are eager to learn if the stimulus is there, some are not. What shook me was stories written by eight and nine year olds, the teachers did not even correct the spelling. Off subject My friend daughter is a newly trained teacher one child of seven was saying how she had to get up in the mornings, make a hot drink and organise cereal for her younger brother feed and dress him and take him to school. Mother remained in bed. The child seemed very tired and my friends daughter told the headmistress who dismissed what the child had said,and told my friends daughter not to make an issue of what she considered a problem.