Wondering about the timing of the referendum

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Re: Wondering about the timing of the referendum

Postby pollR78 » 05 Aug 2014, 21:26

Well I have just watched the debate on tv, think it is streaming on itv player for people not in Scotland - I had already made my mind up a long time ago, and thought I should watch it - didn't make me change my mind, if anything it made me realise I was making the right decision.

Too many unanswered questions by a certain politician who I cannot stand, this has been his ambition/aim ever since I can remember and I just pray he does not get his own way.

Also, I am sure there are plenty of Scottish people who dislike English people and vice versa, but please do not 'tar us all with the same brush'.

Poll :)
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Re: Wondering about the timing of the referendum

Postby shazsha » 05 Aug 2014, 21:48

I thought the debate was awful and neither side came out well in it.

If you had been an undecided then, imo, you would still be none the wiser.
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Re: Wondering about the timing of the referendum

Postby Suff » 05 Aug 2014, 21:52

pollR78 wrote:Also, I am sure there are plenty of Scottish people who dislike English people and vice versa, but please do not 'tar us all with the same brush'.Poll :)


We don't. They exist. They are not the majority, but they will have a large impact on this kind of vote.

What you might want to think about is that many of these questions which are "unanswered" are set up questions. They are set up so that Salmond has to answer them by saying what someone else will say. Then that "someone else" does not confirm what Salmond says and he is crucified in the polls. Consider Cameron of Junkers. 7 Countries said they didn't want it, even Germany. Cameron made the noise and 27 countries stood against him.

If there is a "Yes" vote, there will be a 2 year separation period. In that time all these questions will be answered. The UK cannot afford NOT to work with an independent Scotland any more than an independent Scotland would want to work without the rest of the UK. The EU simply won't want to not work with Scotland. They stand to lose far too much money and far too many material things like fishing rights if they do not. If the rest of the UK lost Scotland and 75% of the North Sea Oil revenues, then the rest of the UK would immediately demand a massive reduction in their contributions to Brussels. Then tell the EU to go get it from Scotland. End result? EU would fold.

Think it through. Nobody is going to be accused of making the case for Salmond in a referendum which is extremely close. No country will stand forward to be accused by the UK of interfering in a referendum. Even though England is heavily interfering in the referendum as "part of the UK".

However, if the Yes vote comes to pass, all these questions will be answered and they will be answered in the mode of an independent Nation rather than a dependent part of a Union. There are far too many splinter areas within countries of the world today who would jump on any words said to make it easy for Scotland to secede. However once Scotland has seceded, things would be radically different.

The reality is that Scotland would be a far richer place alone. A place able to negotiate it's terms in the world without the dragging down effect of the English ball and chain tied to the Scottish ankle. Scots and Scotland are very well received around the world. England not so much so. Respected, certainly, welcomed? Another matter.

The main pitfall? Salmond. He's a scumbag, no question about it. But then, throughout history, those who have done what needed doing have not tended to be the kind of person you would want at your dining table wooing your daughter.....
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Re: Wondering about the timing of the referendum

Postby Aggers » 05 Aug 2014, 22:00

Workingman wrote:Putting aside that an 'Independent' Scotland in the EU is oxymoronic...



Thanks. That's a new word for me, Frank, and I love learning new words.

I had to look it up, and if anyone else wonders what it is.....

ox·y·mo·ron [ok-si-mawr-on,]
noun, plural ox·y·mo·ra [ok-si-mawr-uh,] , ox·y·mor·ons. Rhetoric .
a figure of speech by which a locution produces an incongruous, seemingly self-contradictory effect,
as in “cruel kindness” or “to make haste slowly.”
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Re: Wondering about the timing of the referendum

Postby Suff » 05 Aug 2014, 22:03

As opposed to an independent UK within the EU being just plain "Moronic"..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Wondering about the timing of the referendum

Postby Workingman » 05 Aug 2014, 22:03

You were lucky, Poll. We in England, who are also interested, didn't get a chance to partake in the debate, even though it does affect us.

We will have to rely on the second-hand reports of the 'British' media.

Don't you just love the BBC?
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Re: Wondering about the timing of the referendum

Postby pollR78 » 09 Aug 2014, 10:44

i was under the impression it was being streamed online WM? so anyone outwith the tv region could watch it - maybe not....you didn't miss much to be honest!

Poll :)
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Re: Wondering about the timing of the referendum

Postby molly » 09 Aug 2014, 15:48

It was streamed Poll but it all crashed, too many people wanted to watch it…………those would be all the people that ITV thought would not be interested!!!
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Re: Wondering about the timing of the referendum

Postby Suff » 09 Aug 2014, 16:04

More correctly, did not want the people to be interested in the debate, just what ITV told them about the debate in snippets later. So they could spin the outcome.

Actually watching it live stops the media from spinning what did happen by only showing the parts they wanted to show. A very handy media technique. Only showing part of the truth and then bending that part to what they want.
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Re: Wondering about the timing of the referendum

Postby Workingman » 09 Aug 2014, 16:34

The conspiracy theorist have already been vocal that STV deliberately "crashed" the live stream south of the border in order to ensure that we only got the media version of events the following day.

Those versions were mixed, though they did tend to lean on Darling edging it from Salmond, but we cannot ever know for sure because we were not able to see it.
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