Closer and closer

[victor]

i suppose that if Scotland says yes ,then England can do the same as mainland Europe and send all those immigrants onto the next country

[Suff]

Time to nail my colours to the mast. Some may consider it inflammatory, so up to you if you want to delete it, Kaz & Di.

Personally I'd prefer it if this wasn't deleted. This kind of debate needs to be had and these things need to be discussed.

Ossie I agree with pretty much everything you say except for the following

I'm one of those who would welcome a Yes vote because if nothing else, it is an opportunity to:

a) say goodbye and good riddance to the hard-core of English haters of Scotland

I agree, but, what you fail to calculate into this is that Scotland will lose far more dismissive and derogatory English than English will lose those Scots who choose to hate. On balance I see the Scots as the winners. Also if you take away the reason for the hate, then tolerance will return. In time.


Additionally:

2) I totally oppose offering currency union. The Scots make their decision to break the Union, and the consequence is they must not be allowed the easy passage of clinging to the rUK coat-tails. rUK must "guarantee" absolutely nothing.

You might want to rethink that. Just that poll tanked the £, British stocks and impacted Euro stocks today. Now consider what Scotland, walking away with 20% of UK GDP and 10% of UK debt, would do to the English £???? It will be interesting to see who comes crawling after whom!

and all warship-building to be moved to Southampton / Portsmouth or Belfast

Ships are not built by the government, they are built by companies with UK government tender. If "Wee eck" were to truly deliver on the 3% cut in corporation tax, you might see even more shipbuilding move from Southampton/Portsmouth just as the EU is bemoaning companies flooding to Estonia with it's low flat tax regime.

Scotland is said to have a "policy want" of importing many immigrants to support its aging population.

Actually that was UK Labour and the need to support their wage and spend policies whilst not bringing UK citizens back to work. Scotland will have significantly more disposable money per head. Perhaps the Scots will need the controls to stop the English flooding them for free education, free prescriptions, higher pensions and free bus passes..... It cuts both ways. My take is England needs them more....

I see no reason why the rest of us should just roll over to Wee Eck and his ilk.

Actually nobody is asking England to roll over for anything. All the Scots, not "Wee Eck" are asking is that everyone honour the choice they are going to make. Nobody from the Yes campaign is demanding concessions from rUK. The opposite if anything. They actually find this last minute blatant attempt to bribe them, with concessions they never asked for, insulting.

Step back, take a broader view. Why is the UK government in panic? If Scotland is that unimportant, if it is that riddled with debt, if it has no resources to speak of and is a drag on the UK as a whole; why on earth would the government even care to try and stop them leaving??? Let alone panicked action at the 11th hour to try and stave off defeat by the hands of the Yes camp.

Westminster has spent the whole campaign thinking what you are thinking. That it is so obvious that being part of the UK is a benefit to Scotland. Nobody was really thinking about the fact that Scots don't see it that way and they really didn't count the cost of Scotland leaving. Because they knew it wouldn't.

Now they are counting the cost and, believe me, it won't be trivial to rUK. As the predominantly English parliament tries, ever more frantically, to change Yes into No, the Scots are going to be more and more convinced that a Yes vote is the right way to go. Because, simply, if it was really going to be so bad for Scotland, which means good for England, what the hell are they doing frantically trying to keep the Scots? We're all used to politicians lying, so we have to look under the stated reason for their actions.

The unassailable fact, which most Scots will come to, is that Westminster is so panicked because it will be so bad for rUK. Meaning that Scotland really does give more than it gets. When that is proved beyond a shadow of a doubt; you want to see hate; you'll see it, big time.

btw, I keep trying to write rUK and typing fUK. Ironic really as that's what the Scots are saying who vote Yes. Must be subliminal....

[shazsha]

I don't see your post as being inflammatory at all Ossie. In fact it is probably representative of how many feel, though they don't say it. A lot of English people hate Scotland and vice versa-there is no point in kidding ourselves on that that isn't the case. However I don't see the Independence vote as a way to break away from the English people. I see it as a way for Scotland to become a better country for those who live there.
I see it as a chance for the Scottish people to have a government, voted in by us, who are acting for our best interests. And can you honestly say, that given the chance, you wouldn't want the same?
Personally I couldn't care less what ills any other country wishes upon us in our vote for Independence-it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
As a nation a lot of people have always seen us as whinging scroungers, supported by the English. Now that may end they are suddenly annoyed. And I seriously don't think they are annoyed that the Union will be broken-rather I think they are annoyed at the fact that they may find their country poorer without the Scots.

[Kaz]

Don't worry, no rules broken here!

[Suff]

We are fairly polite after all....

[Kaz]

[KateLMead]

Cameron has done too little. Too late. He is going to jump on the bandwagon tomorrow when he goes to Scotland to face the public. The man has proved to be weak and useless.
I for one will be very sorry if the Yes vote succeeds I have a very soft spot for the Scots and their culture,their pride and courage in the face of war is and has been something to be proud of. My Uncle by marriage Was from Dundee, he was a brilliant man, conscientious objector in the war but still
Drove munitions lorries. He was the prime inventor of the arrester gear at Thurleigh on the old Ark Royal and received a ten guinea check from The Queen, and a commendation. Wales will be next, then N Ireland. I wonder what he would be thinking were he alive?!!!

[Suff]

The man has proved to be weak and useless.

Not entirely sure about that Kate. What most English don't understand is that Scots don't want Tories telling them what to think. Even worse are English Tories telling them what to think. If anything is likely to drive them to yes, it would be Cameron on Scottish TV arguing for a No vote.

Mrs S is from Dundee, she's a solid No. Quite upset about the whole thing actually. Which is something that is going to take decades to work it's way out of the Scottish Psyche, no matter how it goes. I've only seen one paper talk about this angle. Things are so polarised and pressure is being ratcheted up so high that feelings are running at fever pitch. Think there is anti English feeling? Just imagine the Yes/No rivalry in Scotland. I'm sure that in some places it has actually broken out into violence....

[KateLMead]

The man has proved to be weak and useless.

Not entirely sure about that Kate. What most English don't understand is that Scots don't want Tories telling them what to think. Even worse are English Tories telling them what to think. If anything is likely to drive them to yes, it would be Cameron on Scottish TV arguing for a No vote.

Mrs S is from Dundee, she's a solid No. Quite upset about the whole thing actually. Which is something that is going to take decades to work it's way out of the Scottish Psyche, no matter how it goes. I've only seen one paper talk about this angle. Things are so polarised and pressure is being ratcheted up so high that feelings are running at fever pitch. Think there is anti English feeling? Just imagine the Yes/No rivalry in Scotland. I'm sure that in some places it has actually broken out into violence....

Worrying thought Suff, whatever the outcome things will never quite be the same when the haggling starts if there is a yes vote . I do not like Salmon never have, however he is a canny Scot. I think the Yes vote will prove to be the demise of this country in more ways than one.

[Aggers]

I don't see why, because we may be against separation, that anyone can say that we are against the Scots.

Personally, I have no adverse feeling about the Scots at all, but I think it would be better for them if they
remained in the Union. Those who have nurtured the idea of going it alone have not the best interests of
Scotland in their sights, and they need to have a quiet serious thinking session about what they are doing,
and forget their thoughts of personal kudos or enrichment.