Who do you believe?

[Workingman]

George Osborne returns from Brussels and announces that he has halved the demand from the EU for £1.7bn by December the 1st and that we will now pay two interest free instalments in July and September next year.

He had hardly taken a breath before members from the Institute of Fiscal Studies, the European Institute at the London School of Economics, Eurosceptic Tory MEP Daniel Hannan, his Dutch and Polish counterparts, and Labour and UKIP all came out and said that he was talking nonsense = lying. What is more, they have convincing figures to back their case up.

I am going with the naysayers on this one, for a few reasons: 1) Osborne is a politician and politicians will go to any length to spin their activities in a positive way. 2) The EU does not cave in on matters of such magnitude at the first time of asking, and certainly not from the UK. 3) The Dutch, who have been lumbered with the second highest surcharge, have said next to nothing has changed.

[Kaz]

They are just treading water, hoping nobody will prove this a lie before the election

[Suff]

Sorry July is just too convenient with an election in May.

He's got nothing and nothing is conceded. What we need now is for those who have the figures to keep telling us, again and again, what this really means. All the way to the election.

Oh and they need to be really clear. Labour and the Lib Dems would just pay without a peep.....

[pederito1]

He must think we are all as thick as several planks.

[cromwell]

The political handbag-clutching and faux outrage does get on my wick somewhat.

The EU has traditionally siphoned off money from the richer members; we've been a net contributor for every year we've been a member except for one year.
I also don't think this news came out of the blue. Someone in the Treasury must have known for months. Probably no-one wanted to be the bearer of bad tidings in the case?

So it's possible that Cameron didn't know until the last minute because a) No one wanted to tell him and b) As most of our civil service bigwigs are 100% pro EU, they probably are in favour of our mage donation anyhow.

The EU is what it is. Vaguely socialistic, totally authoritarian, horrendously bureaucratic, committed to a Federalised Europe and the diminution of the nation state.

Any British politician who pretends to be outraged at any of these manifestations of EU membership is just maintaining the long and grubby history of British political dishonesty when it comes to our relationship with the EU.

[Suff]

The best thing about all of this is Farage. He's not outraged. He's "Well what do you expect, do dogs water lampposts?"

This is the EU. If you want to be in it, then you expect to pay for it. If you don't want to pay, then get the hell out.

Let's be clear here. I've been saying, for a long time, that the EU is what it is. Either we participate to the limits of our ability, or we get the hell out. Given that we have absolutely no clue what it is or how to participate I believe that we have no place being in it.

So we either wise up or get the hell out. Wisdom is not coming, has never been coming and I don't see wisdom in the future.

It really is that simple.

What is even more simple is that none. Not One Single One, of the main parties, will take us out.

So where does that leave us? Learning French and German?

[Workingman]

So we either wise up or get the hell out.

I am coming round to that way of thinking for, as you say, wisdom seems in short supply.

I have always been an EU supporter, but have always complained about our, or our politicians', attitude towards it. We never gor stuck in to make it work our way, and some of the pronouncements of late from the likes of Merkel and the Scandinavian leaders leads me to believe that we would not be missed too much.

[medsec222]

It always annoys me when comments are made that we need to be a part of the EU to ensure prosperity and job opportunities. Roll on the day when we have the chance to prove the doubters wrong.

[Aggers]

I've always been dead against the UK being in the E.U.

We voted to belong to the Common Market - and that's all.

Our crooked, deceitful, dishonest, lying Politicians got into this unholy organisation.

The sooner we get out the better.

We also need a better way of punishing dishonest. lying politicians - capital punishment springs to mind.

[Suff]

I have always been an EU supporter, but have always complained about our, or our politicians', attitude towards it. We never gor stuck in to make it work our way, and some of the pronouncements of late from the likes of Merkel and the Scandinavian leaders leads me to believe that we would not be missed too much.

Let's be honest here. The French didn't want us and blocked us from entering until De Gaulle died. Even then they tried to get us to pay, per head of population, massively more than anyone else in the EEC. More annoyingly, except for Maggies time, we just rolled over and took it.

So we have set the precedent that we'll just back down and do whatever they say. This is the EU, if you back down they abuse it to the hilt. The worst part is that we're the second largest economy and the second richest country in the EU. So they can abuse it to the hilt. As we are seeing today.

The EU is a fantastic idea. The problem is that it will take 500 years to turn it from a gaggle of countries into a very powerful superstate. The other glaring problem is that they are trying to railroad 3 institutions, designed to legislate trade between separate and sovereign countrie,s into a government to control a nation state. This is never going to fly properly and is massively undemocratic. Hence our issues with it. Britain is seriously not socialist (in the way of the rest of the EU), but the rest of the EU is quite socialist, except for Hungary. Which causes quite a clash.

Honestly I don't see what we are doing there. Except for the political fear factor. It's the politicians who are scared to go it alone, who would they have to blame if their policies went wrong.

Also I'm beginning to feel that the rest of the EU believe that the UK is too expensive to keep. After all they blame the UK and the US entirely for the last financial meltdown and the impact it has caused to their massive economic lie they call an economy. The fact that it exposed all their lies and scheming seems to be more than they can take. So now they are talking themselves into the UK leaving. They'll regret it, but I can see it coming. That, more than anything, may drive the UK out of the EU.