ID cards for all?

[Suff]

Today, if the police want you to identify yourself, you have seven days to turn up with whatever identifying documentation you have. As there is actually no requirement to have any identifying documentation, at all, then the police can only demand ID for certain things.

When the Government has issued everyone with an ID card, the police will _demand_ that you present your ID card and nothing else will be sufficient. The Government will change the law and that will be that. If you think they won't then you are not thinking.

So now we come to the other part. You know, the bit they don't want to talk about. Those of us who have had to have an ID card know all about this. Like losing it, washing it in the washing machine, having it stolen. Etc...

Any of the above and "you" will be the one inconvenienced. As it is important government issued ID, which is a security threat if you lose it, expect there to be repercussions if you lose it. A cost if you wash it.

Think you can just put it in a drawer and pull it out when it suits you? That's not going to happen. Then what happens when the contents of the drawer get "lost" or it's sitting in some papers which get shredded?

If you have not lived with a government issued ID card, then you don't realise the great burden it is.

These things grown and morph until you don't recognise them. Driving license on your ID card? Of course, why issue another card you just have to carry around with you. Then what happens when it's mandatory to carry your driving license but someone steals your wallet/purse? In Switzerland your driving license and vehicle numberplate are on your ID card and you have to carry it, it's mandatory. So if someone steals your wallet, you can't drive and you can't travel. The Government is shut on the weekend, get mugged on Friday, tough.

You think this can't happen? I had a colleague in Zurich who was mugged and his wallet stolen. He then lived a two week nightmare until he had his government documents back again.

If you want someone to do something they shouldn't like, you soft soap it and get them to do it. Then the other shoe drops. But it's there then and there is no going back.

It'll be convenient, yep absolutely. For the Government. For you it will eventually be a millstone around your neck.

Don't believe me? I don't care. Remember I've carried an ID card and I've lived with the limitations. I know what is being "offered". All I'm doing is offering my advice from my experience of life. Advice, as they say, is for giving....

[Workingman]

Yes, the ID card would need to be carried and also, yes, it would be the responsibility of the holder to look after it, just as it is now with a driving licence, passport or Tesco club card.

Then come all the disasters and mishaps. They can also happen to all sorts of official documents we already hold..... some of which many of us carry anyway - driving licence, NI cards, NHS cards.

As for what other countries do with their IDs I could not care less. Post Brexit the UK will regain its sovereignty and can make up its ID card rules as it bloody well pleases. It can make them round and pink with a hologram of a bulldog on the front for all I care.

[Kaz]

Suff I NEVER leave the house without my purse which contains credit cards, donor card, loyalty cards etc. This would be just one more card. To my mind the benefits would outweigh any potential inconvenience.

[Suff]

WM, other countries all started with a simple ID card. Then they sold the whole "wouldn't it be better if" bit to the people and added legs and tails. After all who really wants to carry both an ID card and a driving license, should not they be one and the same? Save the Government, your money, a fortune. Witness the Belgians who all have card readers and can use their government ID card to authenticate them for their banking.... Did anyone, even the techies who do the secure banking, worry that the Government now has your secure second factor for your banking????

This is not just about us, this is making the right decision for future generations. Just as this generation of discontents voted to leave the EU, because their older generation voted to stay in the EEC and there was nothing they could do about it, it is incumbent on us to make sure we don't put overbearing controls on our grandchildren purely because it might be a minor convenience to us right now. That is exactly the same argument as was made by Cameron about the EU. You know the one where he said that we should stay in the EU because holiday flights to Spain might be slightly more expensive.

It's up to the people, but everyone should know where this is going to end in the long run before making the decisions. The Government is selling the "convenience" factor in order to try and convince people that their ID card is something the "people" should accept.

I'm trying to recall the film where the teacher in the class is talking about freedom. He asks the class if they would give up all their rights and freedoms for a single day in order to ensure their security. Everyone was OK with that. Then he went on, a week? A month? A year? Finally the class realised the message he was trying to convey. If you give up all your rights for even one single day, you have to be ultra sure that the people you give them up to will actually give them back after the stated time...

This is the same with an ID Card. The UK will have to make a lot of choices when they introduce them, including when they are issued and whether or not you have to carry one.

Always useful to have a comparison to see whether what the UK proposes is a good deal or not.

Reading that list brings up a whole host of issues. Can you imagine being responsible for a 14 year old having to carry ID, look after it and not damage it? Probably that will be 18 in the UK, although in Scotland it should be 16 as you become a legal adult for many things in Scotland at 16.

I can just see the consequences. Married housewife who does not drive thinks it's a great idea. Until the 18 year old, living in the home, is constantly in trouble for ID related offenses... Very convenient.

My children are grown up, my youngest grandchild is 7 and already has an ID card, the next youngest is 15 and it's unlikely I'll have any more grandchildren now. More great grandchildren. So, for me, I care not. I've lived with an ID card and will be totally bloody minded and totally to the point of the law every second of every day they make me carry one. I'll be legally so much of a nuisance that the authorities will avoid me. But I've had an ID card before and I know the rules.

Happy deciding.

[Workingman]

I have already decided.

If a bog-standard photo ID card with Name; DoB; Address and NI number is offered I will sign up. If it can double as a driving licence that would also be fine. I have had to carry all sorts of ID (RAF and other work) and I am not scared of them and nor should other people be.

If, down the line, the authorities want to make it more comprehensive or contain biometric data and it becomes chipped then I will chop it up into small pieces, send it to my MP for him to hand it in to parliament, then sit back and await the knock on the door.

There are ways for the public to keep the excesses of government in check see Poll Tax for details.

[Suff]

If, down the line, the authorities want to make it more comprehensive or contain biometric data and it becomes chipped then I will chop it up into small pieces, send it to my MP for him to hand it in to parliament, then sit back and await the knock on the door.

Yes and by then you will be one of a minority and will suffer the full ire of the government on a power trip...

I have also decided. If they insist I have one then I'll accept it. I will then make myself the most legal pain in the rectum that I can at every single opportunity. I will then share my experiences with the public at large and suggest they do the same. It's long past the hour when the disparate disaffected can be isolated and controlled.

[JoM]

Reading that list brings up a whole host of issues. Can you imagine being responsible for a 14 year old having to carry ID, look after it and not damage it? Probably that will be 18 in the UK, although in Scotland it should be 16 as you become a legal adult for many things in Scotland at 16.

Kids are used to carrying cards though now. They're a requirement for everyday life.
My youngest is 16, almost 17, and he's been responsible for carrying his bus pass around with him since he was 11. He knows the consequences if he doesn't - no bus pass, no way of getting home. He now has to carry an ID card for college. No card, no class and missing too many means they get kicked off the course. His older brother required an ID card for Sixth form. His now needs a card to gain access to the university grounds and the actual building his flat is in. Forget his card and he's stuck.

[Kaz]

Spot on Jo! Suff, seriously?

[Suff]

Spot on Jo! Suff, seriously?

Very. You've never had an ID card, never had to carry one 24x7, never had to face the consequences of losing a piece of government identity that is considered to be part of the war against crime and terrorism.

Very, Very, seriously.

[Workingman]

You've never had an ID card, never had to carry one 24x7, never had to face the consequences of losing a piece of government identity that is considered to be part of the war against crime and terrorism.

I have, and I have worked in some places where not carrying one could lead to very serious consequences - jail, and I still say "Bring them on"!

We are talking the UK here, and being asked to present one for things like picking up missed postal packages, getting council info, or simply proving who you are. We are not N.K, Saudi, Russia, China or Pakistan - and I have done three out of the four.

Suff, I hate to say this, but you are scaremongering on the extreme downsides, which I freely admit do exist in some countries, but, c'mon, a simple photo ID?