We cannot get the people.

[Workingman]

The National Farmer's Union, the Association of Labour Providers and DEFRA are all saying the same thing: We cannot get Eastern European workers in to pick our crops and there is a fear of some valuable produce being left to rot in the fields.

All of them are claiming that it is largely down to Brexit and the fall in the £.

OK, I get all that, but we have 1.4 million unemployed. Apparently the farmers need about 10,000 pickers so why cannot that number be enticed, or forced if necessary, to come off the dole and work the fields?

I suspect that there are two main players here. 1. There are structural barriers in the unemployment system making it a risk for a person taking what is known to all and sundry as a seasonal job and then going back on the dole once it is over. 2. The quasi-legal operations of the gang masters who force their workers to live in accommodation provided by them for exorbitant rents, as well as other issues.

All of the above is known so it is long overdue for the government to act.

[Suff]

They can't follow scooters from a crime with a million camera's, or find them again when they turn up the next time.

God forbid that we ask them to follow up on employment law or even gang related murders in the agricultural labour gang culture. They can't even stop and search for 12" knives in London, the most controlled and heavily policed cities in the country. What would they do in Aberdeen? The third largest city in Scotland. On a normal weekday evening there are no more than 6 police on the beat....

Of course if we flip benefits so that people on them would lose them if they did not go and work in seasonal jobs, the government would be harried out. Even if they did they would victimise the weak and the vulnerable and leave the fat and happy doing what they do.

I looked at the net migration figures for the EU recently. It is very enlightening.

[Workingman]

Some things are hard to do so we do nothing, is that it?

We already lose a large part of the national crop because it is not perfect according to the supermarkets, and we all want perfect apples and carrots and so on: or so they say. Now we are going to lose even more because they will not be picked. That must not happen.

OK, I was wrong to suggest forcing benefits claimants to do the picking, but something has to be done to employment rules to make it easier for some of them to take seasonal jobs even if they have to return to benefits once the job is ended. They at least get into the world of work, which is a positive on their CVs.

The gang masters and their operations are a different matter. There have been any number of documentaries with undercover reporters showing how these people work. Some of their dealings are barely, if at all, legal and the problems are known but nothing gets done. Is that because the victims are foreign? Is it because the gang master is remote but his/her enforcers are foreign? And are farmers in cahoots with the gang masters?

We have a problem here and we need solutions. We cannot just sit on our hands and hope it goes away.

[Suff]

Sorry I was being totally sarcastic.

We have 11M people not contributing to the economy. Some of them are, by profession, unemployed.

Certainly we should make this advantageous to the people currently on benefits. For instance we have made it prohibitive to go onto short term employment. All accrued benefits are lost, all assessments are lost and when the job is done, they are at the bottom of the heap whilst still having the same expenses.

If you ask me, I would have a slightly different scheme. For those who want to work I would keep them ON benefits for a year. I would have the employer pay their benefits to the government and if the wage did not exceed the benefits they would get a top up. Just like universal credit. With the important distinction that they are still ON benefits. Should the job end, their benefits would continue.

For me this would continue for 12 months. If the job were to continue after 12 months, they would leave benefits and keep any credits which were applied during the first 12 moths, in a case where the wage did not cover all benefits like rent etc.

Of course very few people would want to do this if the wage was less than benefits. However if we did this, it would open the gates to reassess people who were not working. Granted there would have to be strong protections for those who genuinely cannot work. But this should not be an issue when benefits are assured for the first 12 months of any new job.

That would cover the seasonal working perfectly. The benefit to the government would be the payment of benefit claims by the companies they are working for whilst the people worked on seasonal work. For some it could work perfectly where they could pick up 6-9 months of work each year but never lose their benefits.

We cannot continue to expect that we can rack up more and more millions of people not working and simply suck in more and more cheap labourers. Some of whom stay and add to the Not Working figure at some time in the future.

[medsec222]

I think it is difficult to change from benefits to a seasonal job and back again. Look at all the palava claimants had to go through when they changed to universal credit. Weeks waiting for money. It is totally unacceptable. I can understand anyone being reluctant to come off one system to seek work in the hope that when that work ceases, they can go straight back the following week onto their benefits. This doesn't seem unreasonable.

I do think people who are claiming benefit and who are fit and well should be encouraged to take up farming jobs, but the government should subsidise their wages to an acceptable level and then ensure they revert smoothly to their benefits when the seasonal job finishes.

Thinking about immigrants, when they come here to do these jobs they also have their wages subsidised and can claim for a number of other benefits once they pay taxes. I cant see the point of it. They should just employ non-working people here already and ensure they have at least the minimum wage.

[Workingman]

I have read quite a few comments regarding this subject and something strange is happening.

Usually when work and benefits crop up the 'hang 'em flog 'em' brigade is out in force, but not this time. Many commenters have come to similar conclusions that we have and that is that the rules regarding benefits and work need to be looked at, especially when the work taken is well known to be seasonal and always has been.

People recognise that this work may only be for a few months, that crops need harvesting at different times as the season progresses and that different crops grow in different parts of the country. It is a shame TPTB cannot see the same things.

[Suff]

I have been in this situation, off benefits, taking temporary work, family to support, nightmare.

I have a lot of sympathy for it. However lack of effort from the government is not an excuse to just keep on importing cheap foreign labour and leave our own citizens on the scrap heap. It also does not make sense to import cheap labour and use the taxes from it to pay the benefits of our own citizens who do not have a job.

Hence my viewpoint on it.