The bl**dy UNHCR

[Kaz]

Inspite of my radical opinions. I don't think I could turn a boat back with children in it to risk being killed on their return there.

I don't think I could either

[Suff]

It is criminal that they do not lay their true hearts on the table once the talking shops open.

It's criminal that they take good money to do a job and when they actually have to do something to earn that pay. They choose not to.....

[KateLMead]

Inspite of my radical opinions. I don't think I could turn a boat back with children in it to risk being killed on their return there.

I don't think I could either

It breaks my heart to witness what is happening. We are told we are not doing enough.. Where will it all end?

[Workingman]

Very few of those found in the Med are refugees for the purpose of International law as only Syria and Egypt on the Med are failed states, even then those wishing to leave are to make it to the nearest safe haven for processing. For Egypt those are Tunisia and Israel, for Syria they are Turkey and Lebanon.

Very few of those found in the Med are migrants for the purpose of International law. They are migrants, in the dictionary sense, in that they are moving from one place to another, but that does not make them legal. To be legal they need to have applied to their new host country, have been accepted and have the correct papers.

What the vast majority of these people are is illegal immigrants and International law allows them to be treated as such. Why do the media and UN and NGOs and politicians insist on calling them something else?

However, all of them, or none of them, are asylum seekers (another emotive description) and that is because the phrase is poorly defined, in the legal sense.

I am about to become an asylum seeker because I believe that I am being oppressed by Leeds City Council. My chosen place of asylum is Monaco, or, to be precise, Monte Carlo. There is nothing in the world to prevent me from trying if I can get there.

[Workingman]

Inspite of my radical opinions. I don't think I could turn a boat back with children in it to risk being killed on their return there.

I don't think I could either

It breaks my heart to witness what is happening. We are told we are not doing enough.. Where will it all end?

It breaks my heart as well, but I look at it this way: If we acted more firmly fewer children would die on the high seas in boats not worthy of the name.

Take a look at this, it is tonight's latest from the EU Commission, and tell me honestly and truthfully what there is in it to stop these disasters happening.

[Kaz]

I know Frank ((((x))))

[Workingman]

Kaz, I know that I appear to be taking a hard line, but if we carry on doing as we are now doing the problem will only get worse.

We have been left with no choice but to try something else. The traffickers and politicos have put us in this position, and I hate both sides: equally.

It is 'NOT' the fault of those trying to get here, but it 'IS' the fault of those who have done sod all to tell them it is not gong to work.

One thing struck me in a news report tonight. Those on these "boats" are sending out Mayday calls. What that says to me is that the traffickers are giving them sat phones knowing full well they will get into difficulties. They can, the boat people, then call for assistance from International waters to be rescued. They then become "our" problem and the traffickers can move on having fulfilled their part of the bargain.

[Suff]

It is 'NOT' the fault of those trying to get here, but it 'IS' the fault of those who have done sod all to tell them it is not gong to work.

You contradicted yourself there WM. You make the case that these people are doing this, not because of war displacement but, for economic reasons. A reason of numbers. A chance taken to illegally enter another country, live illegally and work illegally, so that the money they earn can be spent 10 fold at home and give them a jumpstart over the top of everyone else.

IF that is true and I fully believe it is, then these people are making their children bargaining chips in a game of chance. For no other reason than they want to try and "get rich quick" illegally.

These people are not only putting their children at risk in the crossing, they are putting their children in the hands of illegal smuggling and trafficking gangs. Gangs who, no doubt, will take all the advantage of that they can.

So, HELL YES they are responsible. They are using their children as bargaining counters against our social responsibility.

How far does it have to go? 100,000? 1 Million? 10 Million? Before we have to stop it and we let people drown? But by then there will be so many that we will be responsible for drowning tens of thousands, not dozens or hundreds. Because our responsibility is to stop this now, to catch the gang leaders, to execute or imprison them, to stop this uncontrolled illegal flow of people who will destabilise our entire social structure.

We have already had reported instances of Moslems throwing Christians overboard when the boat was in difficulty. These people are going to bring their prejudices and their attitudes to our country for no other reason that economic migration.

If we can't be honest with ourselves about that then we have lost already and "breast beating" about the loss of lives will serve nothing but the press. If we've given up then why don't we just invite the whole of North Africa to come over and live with us? Because the net result to the EU as a whole will be similar.

On the other hand, I might just say "bring them in, take them all, give them succour". Because nothing is more sure to break up the open borders of the EU than this kind of uncontrolled migration of illegals. But my social conscience will not allow the vast numbers that would generate to put their lives at risk. My social conscience says stop it now, even if it costs lives and we will gain in saved lives later.

I notice that after the ship with all those people was left to it's fate by Australia, that it has not happened again. Well not that I've picked up.

We are not talking about the Vietnamese boat people here where they were being slaughtered in their thousands at home and took to the sea in a pure act of survival.

I make no apology for my hard line. I believe, in the long run, that it will save lives. That, for me, is the role of our governments. Not to skip the issue and put more people at risk. Let's blame the real people here. Those taking money to do this and leaving those who have paid to their fate.

One final thought which I thought of like WM about the mayday. I do wonder if the boats were ever supposed to make it at all. Of if the goal was to force the EU to rescue them and then take them in????

In which case, look for a hell of a lot more dead bodies in the sea in the near future....

[cromwell]

This isn't a problem that is not going to just vanish.

These people have overbred in their own countries to the point of insanity. There isn't enough jobs, opportunity, infrastructure and sometimes not enough food for them.

But that is their problem, not our problem.

It becomes our problem when they pitch up over here, bringing their unchanged breeding habits with them. And we have to stop this now, we absolutely must do. Because the populations of Nigeria, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Ethiopia, Sudan and all the rest are continuing to skyrocket, and that isn't going to stop. So the pressure for more and more and more illegal immigration is only going to grow.

Playing hearts and flowers and feeling virtuous at hauling survivors from the sea is only going to make things worse, very much worse for us in the long run.

[Workingman]

It is 'NOT' the fault of those trying to get here, but it 'IS' the fault of those who have done sod all to tell them it is not gong to work.

You contradicted yourself there WM. ....

I didn't quite make my point clear enough. I was writing about the reaction of the media, UN etc. Their collective reactions, or inactions, are not the fault of the illegals, they are purely down to their inability to see what everyone else can see and act accordingly.

I put a link up to the EU Commission statement from last night. It shows quite plainly that nothing much will be done.