Austrian Logic

[Suff]

The Austrians say if we don't take more immigrants then they will block Cameron's attempts to renegotiate the principles of the EU which the UK do not find acceptable.

So let's examine this.

Cameron wants the negotiations so he can present the EU to the people of the UK, in a referendum, in a positive light and recommend that we stay. He's on record as saying that if he does not get his renegotiations, then he will be bound to recommend that we leave. Even if he, personally, does not want to leave.

OK so what does Austria want. Well Austria wants to dump as many immigrants as possible on the UK.

OK so how are they going about that? Well they're trying to screw Cameron up so that he has the referendum and has to say that he supports leaving the EU. Which, if it happens, means that not only will the UK take NO EU immigrants but that it won't take many EU citizens either, or pay them benefits, family allowance..... ect....

Not only is this blackmail, but it makes the decision pretty easy for the people of the UK.

Stay in the UK and accept ever growing, unlimited, immigration from all over Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Africa and even the Indian Subcontinent.

Or

Leave and don't take any of them OR the Europeans either.

So where does this logic come from? The firm and absolute belief that no matter what the British people want, the UK will remain in the EU??? Because, to me, if you want the UK to take more immigrants, when uncontrolled immigration is one of the key issues with EU membership, I would have thought that they would need the UK to actually BE in the EU to take them.

Apparently I was wrong!

[medsec222]

Can't wait to put my cross in the 'lets leave' box (or No box) whatever they eventually decide on.

[Workingman]

The Austrians are blackmailing us into doing something they don't want us to do?!

Is that a double bluff or a triple bluff?

Our referendum could be two years away and if EU politicians do not sort out the illegals it could tip the balance to an "Out" vote regardless of anything else. We Brits are already sick of the tsunami of immigrants, both legal and illegal.

[TheOstrich]

It is, without doubt, a humanitarian crisis. The scenes at Budapest railway station speak for themselves, (although the sheer cockiness of some of the refugees ["we know our rights, guv"] doesn't entirely enamor me to them.)

I suspect Merkel has made a grave mistake saying that they will process up to 800,000 refugees, and will come to regret it - but it has been said now, and that is thankfully where this current tide of migrants will be heading.

Should the UK take in more refugees (and I do consider that they are refugees, not just asylum seekers / economic migrants) ? Putting aside the heartstring-tugging reports from media like the BBC and the Guardian, there does seem to be a bit of a grassroots movement towards easing our stance (only a bit, mind you).

I think I would be more amenable to accepting refugees if we could legally stop the flow into the UK of economic migrants from the rest of the EU. Cameron should consider playing that card in Brussels .....

[Aggers]

To me, the answer is simple:-

1. Get out of the EU asap.

2. Close or blow up the Chunnel.

[Workingman]

Putting aside the heartstring-tugging reports from media like the BBC and the Guardian, there does seem to be a bit of a grassroots movement towards easing our stance (only a bit, mind you).

No, do not put them aside. They are what is driving the perceived easing of our stance; if that actually is the case. It is propaganda and has been going on for some time.

At 5 pm this evening I watched Sky News. Its first item was to show the dead body of a Syrian toddler washed up on the shore. He was shown being carried away by a policemen in tears. Its showing was justified, according to Sky, becasue we had to see for ourselves the reality of the situation.

The second item was a report from Budapest and the protests at the railway station. This, we were told, was all the fault of the EU. The EU was not meeting its lawful or moral duty to the migrants. The crowds were almost exclusively young males. Nobody asked why?

These kind of things are done to soften us up.

It is also always the case that anyone out on the streets disagreeing is from the right or the far-right. They are neo-Nazis, Fascists. Nasty people: racists; bigots and xenophobes.

[cromwell]

"We're not doing our bit" to accept this shower is one argument I've seen used. Accept what? There isn't one genuine refugee amongst them. They were safe from war when they hit Turkey, or Greece, or Italy.

Thar should be good enough for them but no, where do they get the most money? German or Sweden. Where do they want to go? Germany or Sweden.

Denmark, incidentally, has halved the amount of benefits extended to asylum seekers. It hasn't been reported on the BBC news, we'll put it that way.

if I were in charge of the Hungarian police or army they'd have some need to complain I can tell you. "Demanding" this that and the other, what do they think it is?

My son still lives at home. No chance of buying his own house. We have seen the rise in this country of massive job insecurity, agency work, part time work, zero hours contracts, low pay and reduced benefits.

And now here come this tide of humanity, hands out, wanting feeding, clothing, housing, educating, free health care and oh, a bit of spending money would be nice too.

I wouldn't let one in.

[Suff]

And this just makes my blood boil.

So he applies for asylum to Canada. OK he's certainly in a war zone which just won't go away. But, There are thousands of miles and dozens of countries in-between to apply to.

So what does he do? Instead of going to a closer country who would give him asylum he, completely illegally, puts his wife and small children on a dangerous boat so that he can have a "chance" of illegally getting into another country which might be a "bit better".

Then it's all our fault and we're not doing enough.

I'm totally not sorry to say that I don't feel responsible. Is it horrible that this woman and her children died in this way? Absolutely it's horrific and I feel for the loss to the family.

Is it our fault?

Absolutely NOT.

What does the husband do? Has a press conference!

It is the fault of the husband and father who put them on that boat in that position when Safe and Secure locations were available to that family without having to take that risk.

Whilst the family was a refugee family, it did NOT need to be on that boat. They Wanted to be on that boat because they Wanted more than was on offer.

The only thing we are obliged and bound to provide to people fleeing conflict is safety, security and basic humanitarian aid. The rest is up to them as to where they would go from there.

This man and his family would almost certainly have been accepted in Germany. He could then have found a job, settled for a time and then applied to Canada again as an independent and solid citizen with family in the country who would sponsor him.

Instead he tried to grab what was not being given. His family paid the price.

And we are getting the blame.

I think I might need to give this subject a rest for a while. I'm really becoming annoyed about the way it's being twisted for political gain.

[Workingman]

Following Austria's border actions the other day I asked if there was a breaking of ranks within the EU. With the latest news from Hungary and the Czech Republic it might be starting.

It appears that a few countries are sick of the UN and media onslaught blaming them and the EU for the problems in the ME and sub-Saharan Africa. In many ways that is a good thing so long as thier populations do not start to take things into their own hands. That, I fear, is a real danger.

[cromwell]

Slovakia has said it will only accept Christians. In Sicily a recently arrived migrant has been arrested for the murder of two elderly Sicilians, which has led to a reprisal attack on two other migrants.

Much of the coverage of this crisis is deliberately designed to tug on your heartstrings. Good looking tearful young mothers, crying babies well to the fore, fit young men shouting their demands and talking into their expensive mobile phones, not so much.

Yes it's tragic those children died. But they were safe in Turkey. Their parents rolled the dice to take a chance at getting into Europe and it backfired, but that was their choice, not ours.