Austrian Logic

[cromwell]

Conversation between two UK left wingers:-

'We must do more.'
'Yes we must do more.'
'What are you doing?'
'I didn't mean me personally.'
'No, me neither.'

[Suff]

Merkel is being forced onto the back foot already, only a day after she said she'd take 800k of them, the floods of people trying to force their way through Macedonia are beginning to scare the general German people.

Germans are pretty much an organised and law abiding society. Watching tens of thousands of people Demand and get, right of way, simply by sheer numbers, is not going to go down well in Germany. These people will be expected to shut up, do as they are told and get to work as fast as possible.

I think Germans, in general, have been forced to assess what 800k of people who think they can get what they want simply because they want it and because there are a lot of them, will mean to German society.

That assessment will not have a happy outcome.

It will be interesting to see just how long Schengen lasts in the face of this immigration. Let's face it, as soon as one country has naturalised them, given them a Schengen visa and given them work credentials, they can go anywhere in Schengen and work or, even, claim benefits...

This problem is only just beginning, it is not looking like it will end any time soon and it will show up all the cracks and flaws in the system. Likely the first casualty of these immigrants will be the Swiss Schengen agreement.

[Workingman]

Schengen eh?

800,000 go to Germany and 'apply' for asylum. How many are accepted? Who knows. What happens to the others? Are they given papers to travel? Who knows.

Not that it matters - they are not EU citizens, none of them. Schengen only allows EU citizens to cross borders and seek work. If you are not an EU citizen Schengen does not apply in that respect.

The UK is not a signatory to Schengen. We can, quite legally, stop EU citizens at our borders if we wanted to. We can turn them away - deny entry.

[Suff]

Not that it matters - they are not EU citizens, none of them. Schengen only allows EU citizens to cross borders and seek work. If you are not an EU citizen Schengen does not apply in that respect.

You are aware of the Schengen Visa's? A Schengen visa issued in one country, gives the ability for that person to travel (and work), in any country in the Schengen zone. I used this myself to get Indians into France when France was being a PITA about visa's. I simply had them get a Schengen Visa from Belgium, they flew into Brussels and got on the train to Paris.

It's that simple.....

Hence Schengen is likely to be the first casualty of uncontrolled immigration into a borderless zone.

Eventually, if they are to fix this, Visa's must become the province of the EU For Schengen. It's fact and it must happen. Any country which does not want it must assess whether they want to be in Schengen...

[cromwell]

800,000 go to Germany and 'apply' for asylum. How many are accepted? Who knows. What happens to the others? Are they given papers to travel? Who knows.

By the end of the year 1,000,000 people will have applied for asylum in Germany in the last 2 years. I don't care how efficient the German system is, it can't cope with that.

By the time they have processed this, another million will have arrived, some of the first wave of migrants will have had "anchor babies" born in Germany and the migrants who are told to go will be furious about it.

Some interesting times lie ahead. Merkel will try and bully other Euro states into taking more migrants but I think a few might be getting fed up with Frau Murky throwing her weight around after what the Germans did to Greece.

So we will see. The only certain thing is that the BBC Hearts and Flowers Orchestra, otherwise known as the BBC News, will be playing at fortissimo levels for months to come, desperately trying to convince the public that this is all OK and nothing to worry about.

[Workingman]

Freedom of movement to work/seek work and claim limited benefits was embedded in EU law for EU citizens long before Schengen was even thought of.

None of the various types of Schengen visa confers any of those rights onto foreign nationals from outside the EU or Schengen area. The most open allows for travel and to reside in the Schengen area for 90 days of any six month period. The most restrictive only allows for travel within the issuing country. Work permits are required for non-EU citizens to work in the EU.

If Germany accepts all of the 800,000 migrants as asylum seekers, and there are no guarantees it will, then it will have to make them German citizens (EU citizens) before they can move freely within the EU for work. That will be a long process.

Cromwell, I can see trouble on German streets long before these people are processed. Hungary and Austria appear to have had enough.

[cromwell]

Well that didn't take long!

It's just been on the news that France and Germany are proposing COMPULSORY quotas of "migrants" for each EU member state.

Now the fun really starts!

[Suff]

None of the various types of Schengen visa confers any of those rights onto foreign nationals from outside the EU or Schengen area.

They confer on them the right to travel, unhindered, initially, to wherever they want in Schengen.

Let's face it. We are not talking about Mrs and Mrs law abiding Joe average here. We're talking about millions of people who have one and only one goal. To make as much money out of the EU as they can and then go somewhere where that money can give them back the "comfortable" life that was taken away from them, by strife and which they didn't value enough to fight and die for.

You think they'll play by the rules? If you give a Mouse a cookie???

The architects of this disaster have simply not even though about what a borderless "country" might mean to this kind of immigration.

Or, perhaps, the Germans already have....

Ah, Quotas. And how are they going to enforce that? Remove their elected governments and replace them with technocrats??? They've become quite good at that but only because the people in those countries actually felt guilty. There will be no guilt attached to this. Only total anger.

There are rules. Italy, Greece and others are not applying them. Few if any of the other countries in the EU are going to have sympathy with that. Those who funnel immigrants through to the rest of the EU are the architects of their own downfall....

[TheOstrich]

Well that didn't take long!

It's just been on the news that France and Germany are proposing COMPULSORY quotas of "migrants" for each EU member state.

Now the fun really starts!

9,000-odd for Poland - love it!! Haven't seen a reaction yet, so I bet that's put the cat amongst the "ptaki" .....

And the BBC absolutely in pro-migrant / Islamic overdrive tonight. Had to walk out of the News after 13 minutes, and Mrs O accompanied me. Giving that Islamic Cardiff ex-councillor a major platform to demand an enquiry about the killing by a British drone of two prominent British ISIS video "cheerleaders" was yet another in a long series of final straws tonight. Nobody from that Islamic community / Cardiff mosque available to be given airtime to condemn the ISIS atrocities, then ......

[medsec222]

There are millions of displaced Syrians - just what is the UK expected to do. David Cameron is right for taking the most vulnerable from the camps, but it is a drop in the ocean. Somehow Syria must be made fit for purpose again. Its the only solution.