Nice legislation

[Workingman]

Well, I do not intend to see Spooks behind every corner, and as I see it the impact on the average person will be negligible. I am against it, not because I fear it, but because it will be an expensive waste of time.

However, there are those who want to take another approach, such as Edward Snowdon of whistleblower fame. He warned the communications data covered by the proposed legislation was:

"the activity log of your life". In a message on Twitter he said: "'It's only communications data' = 'It's only a comprehensive record of your private activities'."

The facts, however, show nothing of the sort.

Investigating officers will not have to obtain a warrant, just get their request signed off by a senior officer, same as now - 517,000 requests were approved last year.

When officers want more intrusive spying operations, including accessing the content of emails, hacking into computers and tapping phones, they will still need a warrant from the home secretary or another senior minister - 2,700 warrants granted last year. The draft bill proposes giving a new panel of judges, the Investigatory Powers Commission, the ability to veto such requests.

So, 517,000 requests on 65 million+ of us, and some of those will be multiple requests for the same people. We also have judges now able to veto warrants, something not available today.

[Suff]

...

Define "Officer".... Also define what information they use to make the further request....

Neither of which is clearly defined and has been abused before.

[Workingman]

I imagine "Officer" will be a police officer of the detective class. I also imagine that the information will be appropriate to make an arrest. But don't forget they can only view the domains visited not individual pages nor e-mail contents etc., same as things stand today.

I also admit that such abuses of powers have been used before. Only strong oversight and appropriate punishments will prevent that and those have always seemed to be in short supply.

Even back in the days of Dixon of Dock Green mail intercepts, phone taps, bugs, physical surveillance and stooges were all allowed, but they were not used on any Tom, Dick or Harry and nor will today's methods.

Bring on ID cards as well: I say.

[Kaz]

I've always been 'for' ID cards!

[Suff]

Actually in the previous incarnation of these laws "Officer" could be a civil servant and a senior officer only needed to be a senior department head or council member.

It was roundly abused.

ID cards are an excellent way to hide. Quality ID is the easiest way to hide in plain sight. It lulls the authorities into a false sense of security. We, the Brits, used this against both Hitler and the USSR.....

We should know better...

[Workingman]

ID cards are an excellent way to hide.

They are indeed, and that is why those of us from the forces take them with a pinch of salt, but they also can give a quick yes/no if the right systems are in place.

The vast majority will see them as a sensible way of identifying themselves. The crims and terrorists will fake them, no doubt about that. However, if comprehensive intelligence gathering can identify the Ts & Cs what is the problem?

[Suff]

People always seem to think that an ID card will make their lives easier. They never seem to think about how it will be used to make the lives of the government easier by integrating it into everything you do.

Want to vote, bring your id card. Want to pay your council tax, have an id card…. Especially chip id cards where everyone suddenly needs the internet and a reader just in order to carry out activities which we deem normal.

Have 4 children? ID cards issued at birth, updated every year to 5 years and every 5 years thereafter until 18, for every child, because of the picture validity.

We already see this with a driving license. The picture expires after 10 years. So now we’ll have to have a new passport every 10 years, a new driving license every 10 years and a new ID card every 10 years.

OK passports and driving licenses are optional, an ID card is not.

Then when the banks start demanding we use our ID card as the single source of ID….. What happens when you lose it or it is stolen? It’s one thing replacing your mobile, your bank cards, your driving license. Imagine losing your ID card which becomes the single source of validation for you to be able to get your new phone, bank cards etc…

I’ve seen Swiss lose his wallet with his ID card and bank cards whilst on a business trip. Total and complete nightmare for him which went on for weeks before he could resolve it. Not helped by the fact that it is mandatory for the Swiss to carry their ID card too.

An ID card is the most fundamental level of tracking and control of a population. Unlike online monitoring laws which may change or weaken, when an ID card is introduced, it stays. Forever.

To paraphrase Stephane Meyer’s Twilight. “You don’t want to be in a hurry to make a permanent change that you do not understand the full ramifications of”….

I live and work in environments which have ID cards. At home everyone who drives has to carry their vehicle registration document which also carries their MOT (Control Techinque or CT), date and expiry on it. They must carry their driving license and also their ID card. Our environment in the UK has trended away from individual identity and tracking. Yes they can track vehicles 24x7 over almost all of the UK, but they do not know, or have to know, who is driving it.

Simply because you have to have one, Governments can demand them. Of course in the beginning you will be able to just stick it in the drawer like a passport. But as each decade goes past, that little piece of plastic will begin to dominate your waking life. As WM says, those who are ex forces understand having a number and a picture on a piece of plastic which you are then required to carry at all times. Just imagine going to the beach, it’s OK to leave your wallet and bank card at home, not OK to leave the ID card. Where are you going to put it? If the police come down the beach, you have to have it, are you going to leave it unattended with your bags whilst you are in the water?

Nobody who has not been forced to have an ID card can imagine all of the scenario’s where it is a total pain in the backside. You can be absolutely sure the Criminals will have thought them all through and will target you wherever you are vulnerable. They won’t have a problem getting a new ID card, they will just steal the blanks from the manufacturers and will bribe the right civil servant for the correct entry to match the chip.

As you can tell, I’m not a fan!

[TheOstrich]

I've been anti ID cards and snooping charters to date, but quite honestly (thinking of the latter) I'm beginning to think that internet use needs a darn sight more regulation than we currently have, especially when you consider the underground Dark Web where many dubious and unsavory things take place. There is so much crime, of all descriptions from fraud to blackmail to terrorism, on the internet these days that anything which might help the authorities fight it has to be a positive move.

Yes, we're probably sleep-walking into a totalitarian state 10 years down the line, but heigh ho, we're pretty much there anyway with CCTV and ANPR and police drones coming to an upstairs window near you .....