Poor Holidaymakers.

[miasmum]

I can assure you Kaz, nothing is further from my mind than "well they had a nice holiday so they deserve it" That sort of holiday is my idea of hell

All I am saying is, they are in a hotel, there is food available, they are not in a third world country, they are in a major tourist destination with beds and food for their chidren. Ok so they are having to live out of their suitcases, so what, its hardly a hardship. We had to live out of our suitcases, plus carry Luke's dirty clothes from where he wet himself during a seizure around with us because until WE found a launderette, there was nowhere to wash them. They have full hotel facilities, and no one is flying in so they wont be pushed out will they?

I can imagine not knowing when you will get home is tough, it was the same for us in London. But it is the risk you take if you go abroad and the reason why I refuse to even consider it

[KateLMead]

Kaz Egypt is and has not been free of problems politically.. I was very worried when Yasmin and the family went to Sharm on holidays but their decision to do so was her choice and I could say nothing to deter her.
I am upset for the children caught up in the debacle, it's all very well holiday makers furious, shouting demanding help and answers, however they should have thought before they leaped knowing that politically today no where is safe in any country where religious bigotry and terrorists exist.
As Yasmin has always said, the people were lovely, respectful and helpful, but there is and was always a risk of instability as there as there is in this country.. "It is only a matter of time" miasmums post says a lot...

[Kaz]

We'll agree to disagree, I think Personally I think getting caught up in this kind of situation must be very stressful, especially knowing that the plane that came down was caused by a bomb. I would not be feeling at my most calm and collected knowing how close myself and my family might have come to being blown out of the sky.......... I think it's easy to judge, sat here safe and sound.

[miasmum]

To be honest Kaz, I don't think I was even thinking about it in that perspective. But as Kate says if you chose to go somewhere that is part of or neighbouring a war torn country, then hey, thats the risk you take

I was thinking of it more from the point of not being able to get home, which is what they were complaining about and just thought of my friend. She went on a family holiday to Turkey, but her mum was taken seriously ill. Kate's 7 day stay turned into 5 weeks and she is self employed. That was the side I was looking at it from, that if you go abroad, its a risk you take. Should anything go wrong, you CANNOT get home

Anyway, we will agree to disagree. I will continue holidaying here, where the worst thing I risk is the rain

[KateLMead]

Kaz, the escaping women and children we see on TV, from Syria whose homes and members of their families have been blown to smithereens, their properties reduced to rubble, women raped by the enemy, motherless orphans, little ones sitting weeping dirty and hungry, and terrified wandering aimlessly. We see the women who have managed to escaped with their offspring following walking what must seem like an eternity miles upon miles exhausted, to be refused sanctuary when they arrive at one border after the next . The women do not scream, they just stand or sit desolate if they are lucky enough to find cover protecting their offspring praying that one of the countries will afford them the help they plead for.
I cannot believe that any human being witnessing this terrible situation could refuse them the sanctuary and safety they need.

[victor]

Kate ,I would just like to say ,and behind these will be more and more and more as infinitum,it HAS to be stopped. This is realism.
You say you would 2,so next year 2 more?

[Kaz]

Okey doke Shell, and TBH I love holidays in this country too - in fact when you get decent weather you can't beat it!

Kate, the situation for the refugee families is quite appalling, I would never disagree with you about that ((((((x))))))

[cromwell]

I do have some sympathy for the holidaymakers. It can't be easy being at the end of your holiday, having no money, not knowing when you are going home and being stuck in an airport for hours on end with bored, fractious children.

The sympathy is tempered somewhat by the fact that they chose to go to Egypt, though. There have been terrorist attacks there before, there have been very recent terorist attacks in other North African countries against holidaymakers - why would you go?

As for the refugees I have no sympathy whatsoever. If in their culture a woman who does not cover her hair or wears a bikini is a slut, then that culture has no place in Europe.

[KateLMead]

We are living in a sick world Kaz.. I do not know what the answere is, but surely it cannot be coldly observing children being drowned with their mothers, the misery being experienced as they are rejected on one border after the next.
"I certainly would not accept the thousands of young men "demanding" entry who have joined the queue of thousands, "demanding sanctuary due to the wars taking place in their homelands" Are they waiting for our reduced in number maltreated troops to risk their lives who are in combat with far to much sub standard equipment bought on the cheap from China? Our forces who can, and as we see risk landing up in prison for doing the job they are being forced to do...many living rough with mental health and drug problems on their return, rejected by government and indeed the public..Whilst these male immigrants sit comfortably in the safety and warmth of this and other countries, with the exception of those In the clutches of gang masters who are as we know prolific here" these young men as I have mentioned should be forced to return to fight the enemy if their countries are in the clutches of IS or terrorists I am sure our government would supply along with other countries the arms and training for them to do the job. I am looking at the weather here today imagining if I were wandering aimlessly with no where to go clutching my exhausted children or holding my cold hungry possibly dying child or baby in my arms.

[Suff]

I haven’t read the press on this but let me try and leaven this with a bit of my own experience. When they were filming Airline, I happened to be stuck in Luton on a Friday, getting later and later as the flight situation spiralled out of control.

Unlike the “holidaymakers” who had chosen Easyjet as the low cost solution to go on holiday, I was travelling with full knowledge of what airline I was travelling on and their issues of back to back Friday flights, restricted planes and crews which have expired their flying hours.

So whilst I was quietly waiting out the mess created by the 2 or 3 planes which were unable to get out of Europe due to the EuroControl nightmare, causing a knock on impact to about 20 flights, I watched the TV crew running around shoving their cameras in the faces of people who were shouting at the staff behind the information (or lack of it), desk.

Honestly it was 5 or 6 people who were causing all the trouble. The vast majority of the people were quietly dealing with the issue whilst an incredibly small number were ranting at the staff (who had no control over the situation), with camera’s shoved in their faces egging them on. In fact I was standing right next to the information desk listening when a situation happened. My flight had been listed as boarding in 25 minutes, then I head the staff behind the desk say, very quietly, “Oh no they’ve reassigned the flight”. The “they” was the back office flight allocation team. The reason for this reallocation was almost certainly that the flight crew were going to expire their flying hours whilst in the air, which is totally illegal.

2 minutes later the screens changed and the flight was no longer listed as boarding. Que 4 ranting people shouting at the poor sod’s behind the desk, who had absolutely no control over the situation and no further information than was on the screens.

If it were not for the camera’s I’d have gone over and simply told them that we were all in the same situation and to shut up, sit down and wait for further information like everyone else. I was already stranded when I was going to land, it made little difference to me whether the plane left that night or the morning after, my weekend home was already ruined, I was going to have to pay for a hotel in Paris and pay for a new train ticket home.

So when you hear about people whining in the press and on the TV about how it’s ruined their holiday etc….. Take it with a large pinch of salt. The vast majority of them (over 90% I guess), will be quietly sorting it out and dealing with it. But that doesn’t sell news does it?

As for the mothers and children risking their lives trudging through the Balkans? I’ve been very clear about this from day 1. There is no need for any of them to be in this danger, most of them have left safety to look for opportunity, the rest of them have chosen to make a very dangerous sea journey instead of using the safe land routes to safety. I am totally and completely disgusted with the parents who are doing this to their children and I take absolutely no responsibility for it. In fact I fully believe that those who are offering a “new life” in the EU are actually endangering those children by encouraging their parents to make this difficult and dangerous journey! If they want and need asylum, go to the safety zones and apply for it. Don’t risk their families lives on the off chance they can blackmail us into taking them. If they are granted asylum they will receive safe transportation.

My position on that won’t change.