This is getting ridiculous.

[Workingman]

The media are running a story that a "woman" prisoner has died at the all male Armley jail in Leeds. This follows hot on the heels of transgender Tara Hudson being moved from Bristol male prison to a women's prison after "it" nutted a bar tender and put him in hospital.

We need to get a grip with this. Neither of these people were women, they were/are men. They might have had hormone treatment, bits chopped off or bits added, but they are still men. Women who want to be the other way are still women.

They can be transgender all they like in their daily lives, but there is no such thing as sex change. It is physically and biologically impossible.

[Suff]

I'm going to sit on the fence on this one. One of my nephews has just "come out" as transgender in the last year. It explains a hell of a lot about his life and the problems he had (resorted to soft drugs), over the last 2 decades.

Whilst I agree that we can't just push "men" into women's prisons, we have also created this situation where transgender people don't fit in either category. We gave them the legal status but now we take it away when they need it most.

Prisons are generally pretty rough places with a lot of same sex abuse in them. Putting a transgender man/woman into a military or civilian prison is like throwing fresh meat to the lions. They won't even have to dig deep to justify the abusive sex as they would with a man, after all the "it" is kind of half way there anyway....

I'm pretty black and white about a lot of things but I'm not going to make a strong stand on this one because, in the end, we are talking about the destruction of people's lives. I don't know what the "woman" did in the Army but I'm pretty sure it didn't warrant a death sentence, because that is almost what you are doing when you put someone with that physical body in an all male military prison.

[Workingman]

When my dad died I was 12 and moved to Stoke where I met my cousin aged about 20 for the first time.

She had always been a tomboy and in her teens started wearing boys clothes. All I ever saw her wearing were men's suits, brogues and trilby hats. She drank pints, played darts and doms and the one-armed bandit. Standing at the bar she would be with other lads and lasses of the same age and nobody gave a stuff. She was not cut out, but neither was she 'special', she was one of the crowd.

Today she would have to be pigeon-holed into one or other group in order to 'fit' and then forced go to places where she would be accepted.

I am sorry to say that the people being talked about are not women, they never have been and never will be. The media might want to describe them a 'her' or she', when they are patently not. They have committed crimes and should be incarcerated in jails to suit their gender.

[Aggers]

We need to get a grip with this. Neither of these people were women, they were/are men. They might have had hormone treatment, bits chopped off or bits added, but they are still men. Women who want to be the other way are still women.
.

I must confess that my views have always been the same, i.e., if you have testicles you are a man,
and if you have an ovary you are a woman. But a few weeks ago I watched a television programme
that dealt with how a baby started to develop in the womb, and it explained that sometimes things
didn't go right and the male/female elements became mixed up. I have to admit that perhaps I was
wrong in being so adamant on this subject.

[Workingman]

Yes, things do go wrong during gestation.

My mother contracted diphtheria, so my brother was born physically and mentally disabled. No amount of medical intervention would have changed the outcome. He would never have been 'normal' and no amount of medical intervention will make a male into a female, or vice-versa.

They might wish to be 'other' in their minds, but that does not make them so.

[meriad]

I'm not going to sit on the fence; these woman should both have been sent to a woman institution. Sending them to a male one is just wrong and asking for nothing but very avoidable trouble.

Have you seen photo's of Tara Hudson? Appearance wise she is 100% female; yes she wasn't born one and can't bear children, but her mindset is female and she has had surgery to make her a woman - she is a she, not an it Neither she, nor Vicky Thompson or other transgender people can help how they feel. As far as they are concerned they are a gender born in the opposite / wrong body.

One doesn't have to agree with it and many people don't, but acceptance I think would go a long way.

[pederito1]

Some people are born XXY and do have the potential to want to change sex and whilst not being dogmatic I can accept it. The incredible sentence of 8 years on the woman who masqeuraded as a man and duped another woman amazed me. If she wanted to be a bull dyke why could she not be honest about it.

[meriad]

The incredible sentence of 8 years on the woman who masqeuraded as a man and duped another woman amazed me. If she wanted to be a bull dyke why could she not be honest about it.

agree... we were talking about that at work the other day; quite astounding that 'allegedly' the 'victim' for over a year wasn't aware of what was going on? I do find that quite hard to fathom

[Suff]

I'm not sitting on the fence re transgender. If that is how someone is made up I'm more than willing to tolerate it, I accept it as a given fact and support it. Which is why my BIL and SIL told me and Mrs S before anyone else in the family. Because they trust us to be fair and supportive.

Where I sit on the fence is the institution thing. Personally I'm trending towards an assessment bias. If someone is like Tara Hudson, then I'd say yes a Woman's prison is correct. However in the case of someone who is not outwardly female, nor demonstrably female, I would probably not agree. Mainly because I'm extremely wary of people who abuse their "status", whether it be religion, race or sexuality, to avoid sanction or censure.

[meriad]

I'm not sitting on the fence re transgender. If that is how someone is made up I'm more than willing to tolerate it, I accept it as a given fact and support it. Which is why my BIL and SIL told me and Mrs S before anyone else in the family. Because they trust us to be fair and supportive.

It must have been hard for your nephew all these years; he's lucky to have your support and he's certainly going to need it loads going forwards.

However in the case of someone who is not outwardly female, nor demonstrably female, I would probably not agree. Mainly because I'm extremely wary of people who abuse their "status", whether it be religion, race or sexuality, to avoid sanction or censure.

Very true