Whoo-hoo choo-choo

[Workingman]

Northern England and Scotland, the areas where the inventors and builders of such things came from, are to get a "World Class" rail network. Some of it, a tiny part of its thousands of miles of track, will get to run on that electricity stuff. Over time we wil get a share of 500 new carriages, but nothing is said about what will pull them. We already know the our reasonable TransPennine trains are going south to be replace by refurbished stock moving north. The whole thing is going to cot £1.2bn. Aren't we the lucky ones? Are we impressed?

No we are not, not when London is getting one new line of 85 miles in length with 40 new stations and 1,500 brand new carriages and trains at a cost of £30bn+.

Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin says the scheme will bridge the north/south divide. I suggest Patrick goes back to primary school for a few arithmetic lessons. The numbers above are not bridging the gap, they are widening it.

[Kaz]

I would say the divide is pretty much the South East v the rest of the country

[TheOstrich]

There's been a serious disconnect between London rail services and the rest of the country for many years.

But you Tykes are receiving up to 500 new carriages? You're in clover!

Here in the West Midlands, we're getting your Northern cast-offs -the Manchester-based class 323 electric units are coming south next year to Brum. That's 51 carriages (17 x 3 car) and they're 23 years old ..... and that's it!

[Workingman]

Ah, yes, but.... our 500 new carriages are to be shared between the Northern Powerhouse a couple, or three or four, national parks and a whole other country: Scotland.

And although West Mids is getting some parts of our older train set, the newer parts are going to Reading to run into London, and somewhere called "The Chilterns". Then, as part of the merry-go-round, we are to get some refurbished London tube wotsits. And don't you dare call them cast-offs, we are not casting anything off, we are way to tight for that sort of malarkey, they are being taken from us - stolen.

However, you and Kaz are right, the divide is between London and the S.E. and the rest.

[cromwell]

But you Tykes are receiving up to 500 new carriages? You're in clover!

Luxury! We used t' live in 'ole in't road - but it were an 'ouse to us...

The services round here can be pretty bad, especially in the rush hour. If you tried to cram cows into a wagon the way people are, the firms would get prosecuted for animal cruelty!

[Suff]

Well, in contrast, if you come to us, we have 3 mainline train stations almost equidistant at 1 hour journey to get to it. We do have one local train station only 25 minutes drive away, which has about 4 trains a day and we have three return busses a day, twice a week, which will join us to the train stations.

The TGV trains which run up and down the Western lines are the old one's, most of them being 30 years old or more. We are getting a spanking new train line costing €7.6bn between Paris and Bordeaux, but we're not on that mainline so our trains will have to come off the high speed line to get to us. Adding time to the journey. Of course the one's which will stop at us are going to be the old boneshakers with new upholstery.

Our local trains are a mix of 30 year old rattle bags and band up to date modern trains. Just depends where you are going.

Of course Paris gets more money spent on it's local rail infrastructure than the rest of the whole country combined and tripled. That is, of course, just the way countries are. The good and better goes to the bigger population centres. Want to go Paris Strasbourg, you can sit on the ultra modern TGV with wifi on it. Want to go Paris Bordeaux and you can stand crammed in for 2 hours on a train which hasn't heard of wifi and probably never will.

[Workingman]

I do not know exactly where you live, Suff, but there are plenty of places in the UK with similar services. I also do not know if France is actively selling and promoting Normandy, Provence or Lorraine powerhouses. If it was those places only getting 1/30 of Île-de-France would not wash with the locals.

We, however, are being bombarded with the Northern powerhouse idea. Government likes it and sells it at every opportunity. The recognition is there that the divide exists, if follows that something has to be done. The reality is that to close the gap more money per capita has to be spent outside London and the S.E. and in all the other regions, and it has to be done for a sustained period.

That will never happen. London has and will keep, the rest get the scraps.

[Suff]

Home is in the Charente. About 100 miles in from La Rochelle and about 50 miles south of Poitiers.

They have a saying in France. All Roads lead to Paris. Have a look at the road network on a map and you'll see what I mean. Over the last 2 decades, there have been some new cross country autoroutes put in, but very few compared to what is really needed.

If you look at rail links it is truly a case of all rail lines lead to Paris except for the south coast link between Avignon and Toulouse.

The UK is actually more diverse but, still, has the same issues with public transport that France does with Paris.

There is no talk of regional powerhouses in France. More a case of lobbying for more money to be spent outside of Paris. Not that it gets all that much attention.

[Workingman]

The same is true for the UK.

Take out the M8 (Scotland) and M62 (Hull - Liverpool) and all the other major roads lead to London. The rail network follows similar lines. They are not really the problem, nor is the rail network, the money flow is where things go wrong.

London, due to its position as capital, makes a lot of money, no arguing about that, but it is also a black hole as far as the rest of the country's money is concerned. Lots of it flows in, but little escapes. What does get out is sold to us as Nectar of the Gods and we should go down on our knees and thank them for it.

£1.2bn sounds like "loadsa monee", but in context with what London and the S.E. receives it is pocket money.

[victor]

and the South west is even worse!