Cameron's done deal...

[Workingman]

Cameron's done deal...

... or not.

The draft EU deal has not gone down well with MPs, critics or the public. A Sky poll showed that 69% of us thought it was a bad deal. The reactions are not that much of a surprise, are they? Cameron did not ask for much, and came nowhere near getting all of it.

Now what does he do?

[victor]

P.O comes to mind

[Suff]

As I have said many times, the EU is not a place to set a low target. ..

[cromwell]

I must be getting old, because I feel a bit sorry for Cameron. He's atm trying to sell the unsellable.

"I've got a deal with the EU, and it's really good!"

"Really? What is it?"

"Well, I don't have all the details yet, but..." cue for derisive laughter.

The EU is what it is. Despite what we were told in the 1970's it has always been about closer and closer union and about a Federal superstate. About one currency, one set of Federal laws which take precedent over state's laws, about an EU army, EU foreign ministers, about freedom of movement across national borders etc etc.

And the time has just about come when the lies we have been told about the above can't be told any more, things are out in the open now.

So Cameron doesn't want us in the EU army, doesn't want us in a Federal Superstate, doesn't want the Schengen freedom of movement, and says we'll never be in the Euro.

But that IS the EU! That's what it is all about, what it has always been about.

So if we don't like the rules, why are we in the club?

[pederito1]

Someone should tell him that "You can`t fool all the people all the time" Anyway I wonder what`s in it for him.

[TheOstrich]

I'm starting to get concerned about the millions who are going to swallow Cameron's propaganda and vote to stay ....... perhaps the greatest hope for the Eurosceptics now is that even these watered down proposals will be rejected by some Eastern European country or other. Which won't half put Cameron on the spot ...

[medsec222]

I like that Cromwell - if we don't like the rules why are we in the club? Let us hope the majority of British voters ask themselves the same question.

[saundra]

Majority of the UK population don't care and won't bother to vote if needs be anyway

[Suff]

This, of course, is the crux of it Cromwell. The other part which is totally crucial and everyone simply brushes over it is that what Cameron is asking for is diametrically opposed to the EU treaties already in place. Which means that whatever is agreed now will have no binding hold on the EU until the treaties are next updated. That will probably take a decade from now to finalise.

They can talk about “assurances” that we will get what we want _when_ these treaties are updated. However we can’t even guarantee that we will have a government which will even want that by the time the treaties get to that stage.

Cameron isn’t even selling us a pig in a poke, he’s selling us an “option” on a pig in a poke with no actual guarantee that we’ll get it in the long run.

Note the EU response. “Yes we’ll let you have an emergency brake on benefits, but only if we ALL say you can use it”. As we are all well aware there is not and never will be, 100% consensus on the UK benefits handbrake. The ONLY reason they are even discussing it is because we’ve presented them with an ultimatum of leaving and they all know they can’t afford the billions the UK brings to the table out of their own budgets….

So when the threat is lifted, what chance is there that we will ever have the right to enact the things which are promised? Cameron has done a brilliant job of turning the EU into a little schoolboy asking for more, but the EU have immediately put the UK back in that role by trying to force us to ASK Permission to cut benefits..

If this is a real attempt to renegotiate then Cameron needs two things. First he needs to get the competencies enshrined in EU and UK law, as single UK competencies without any reference to the rest of the EU. Second he needs a binding memorandum, signed by all states, that the treaties will be updated within, say, 9 years, to encompass the UK requirements.

Anything less than that is simply noise and not worth listening to.

You are totally right on the whole club thing. THE vision and the treaties of the EU enshrine the United States of Europe with one country, one civil service one police force, one tax system, one benefits system and one army. If we don’t want that (and we sure as hell don’t), then what the hell are we doing sitting there and holding back the rest of the EU by our belligerence. Get out and get out NOW.

[Workingman]

According to the BBC many of the other 27 leaders are not happy with the "proposals" in the draft document. Furthermore, the leaders are not all disliking the same things; there is no united front. That will make for very difficult, disjointed and probably prolonged negotiations.

Cameron's "done deal" is nothing like any sort of deal.

There are also reports that polls show the UK public is not impressed with what is seen as a bad deal. They will be even less impressed when the coin drops that they were lied to about what Cameron had actually achieved.

I am now becoming resigned to Brexit. Both sides are campaigning negatively on the views held by the other side and not accentuating the positives of their own stance. I also agree with Saundra about the turnout for the poll probably being low. The result of the referendum could be based on the votes of just over a quarter of the electorate.