Jobs

[victor]

If it's true that Immigrants have taken jobs away from the locals in the UK how come locals have'nt taken the jobs before?

[Suff]

Immigrants tend to be itinerant, live in shared accommodation at low cost and only do this work for short periods of time. Also there is a get out clause about really short term work and the minimum wage.

A whole world of difference between people who have to live in the area, don't have groups of like minded people willing to share and they are always subject to the minimum wage.

In short your cheap Primark clothes come from workers who are paid sub standard wages and work very long hours.

To facilitate this market there are direct resourcing agencies who get the people from the EU "to order".

We created the costs by making our wages so high and reducing the controls on workers rights. Now our employers avoid them. Making a mockery of the positions of Corbyn, and Sturgeon...

Of course a lot of this won't change. After all we don't want to pay £20 for a £10 pair of jeans now do we???

[Workingman]

Yes, Vic, in some places immigrants have taken local jobs, but it really is not their fault.

When I worked for the Post Office many of the bag handlers were Poles or from the Baltic states. The work was physically hard, but not dirty work. It was all agency work and though not 'zero hour' there were no regular shift patterns, and changes were short notice.

All of these nationalities knew their 'own' and many came over in small groups, took on a rented property and shared the costs. The vast majority only came here to make their 'pile' and then return home; and even though the wages were poor in UK terms they were substantial for an East European.

Young locals, on the other hand, were trapped in and by the benefits system. They lived at home with their parents. Their only 'income' was JSA, but that only came in if there was no work. Should they do any work then after a few hours their benefit would be removed, £ for £, when £0 was reached they were 'signed off'. If they had weeks with only a few hours work from the agency, or no hours at all, they had no money to either support themselves or their parents. They would then have to go and sign on again and await their next payment, could take up to six weeks, before being able to earn again. If the work dried up they had to go through the whole rigmarole again, and again.

To be fair to the government and IDS the new Universal Credit helps to overcome that as earnings/benefits are managed in real time. So, if one week earnings are high then credits stop, if earnings fall then benefits are automatically paid again. It takes the uncertainty out of work v benefits. Where it does not help is that the UK young, unlike the Poles, Latvians and Romanians, cannot amass a 'pile' to enable them to buy a property outright and live mortgage free for life.

[Suff]

Where it does not help is that the UK young, unlike the Poles, Latvians and Romanians, cannot amass a 'pile' to enable them to buy a property outright and live mortgage free for life.

That, of course, is the benefit of the open and free labour market. Of course it doesn't benefit anyone at the top of the chain, only at the middle and the bottom.

Of course if the Brits were to learn Polish and live in groups and then go to Poland and buy property outright, then they could. But they'd never be able to leave again because the property would never net them enough money...

[Workingman]

Of course if the Brits were to learn Polish and live in groups and then go to Poland and buy property outright, then they could.

Yes, they could, possibly, but then they would be working for Polish wages to buy Polish properties, and that is where they would have to stay. If they sold to return home the profits (if any) would have to be divvied up and still their sacrifice would not even get them a deposit for a UK house/flat/bedsit/garage.

That is not what the Poles, Latvians, Bulgarians and Romanians are doing. They work in the UK for low wages, which are far higher than a good wage back home. They scrimp, save and support each other while here and then send fortunes (in their terms) back home.

If I was a young person in a poorer European country I would give it serious consideration, after all I was a ME expat for the same reasons. Even if the EU never existed the possibility of getting a work permit did. Many of those I worked with were highly qualified, but prepared to put their quals to one side for a few year's of hard graft.