Why didn't Leavers and the EU tell us this?

[Workingman]

The EU's Trade Commissioner has spoken.

So we now know what will happen; it is out in the open. Remainers hinted at this, but it was understandable why, from Leave's POV, it was passed off as 'Project Fear'.

Keeping it hidden by Leave is understandable, but what mystifies me is why the EU didn't speak out. Did the EU actually want the sulky, thumb sucking, whingeing, sit in the corner, not-quite-a-member, Brits, out? It would not surprise me as we have always been an obnoxious child.

As a Remainer I wanted to stay, but if the club doesn't want me then I am well prepared to walk away, V sign in the air.

[Suff]

Why?

Because it's total BS and a unilateral decision by that commissioner.

The Lisbon Treaty full text (I've just downloaded from the EU site), reads:

The following new Article 49 A shall be inserted:
‘Article 49 A
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own
constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its
intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall
negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its
withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That
agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 188 N(3) of the Treaty on the
Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the
Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force
of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in
paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned,
unanimously decides to extend this period.
C 306/40 EN Official Journal of the European Union 17.12.2007
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the
Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of
the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 205(3)(b) of the Treaty on the
Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject
to the procedure referred to in Article 49.’.

The Constitution says

Article I-60
Voluntary withdrawal from the Union
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own
constitutional requirements.
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In
the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude
an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the
framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in
accordance with Article III-325(3). It shall be concluded by the Council, acting by a qualified
majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Constitution shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of
the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2,
unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides
to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council
representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European
Council or Council or in European decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined as at least 72 % of the members of the Council, representing the
participating Member States, comprising at least 65 % of the population of these States.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the
procedure referred to in Article I-58.

It is impossible for the EU to negotiate an agreement for exit, taking account of the
framework for its future relationship with the Union, without negotiating its trade relationship.

So she's lying and that's why nobody mentioned it.

And this is why I AM TOTALLY AGAINST THE EU IN IT'S CURRENT FORMAT.

Because these commissioners can come away with this kind of drivel and expect it to be taken at face value.

EU; one lie after another after another.

[Workingman]

Cecilia Malmstrom was not lying and, Suff, your quotes and highlights back her up. Trade is not mentioned, ever, it does not even come into it.

There are many aspects to negotiate when it comes to Brexit, and although trade is one of them it is certainly not the be all and end all.

EU; one lie after another! Leave: lie after lie after lie, and then some.

[Suff]

Trade is a relationship. The treaties say the "relationship", entire, not "some" of the relationships.

In order for the EU to be compliant with the treaty, they must negotiation ALL the relationship within the two years.

So her statement is a LIE to influence. There is no other way to read it..

[Workingman]

Trade is 'part' of the relationship and as 'relations' will not be negotiated until A50 is invoked by the UK she is telling the truth. It is not difficult to understand.

Yesterday leaders of the EU made it quite plain that there would be no formal, or even informal, negotiations at any time before the UK invokes A50. It is wholly for the UK to invoke A50, there is nothing in the treaties allowing the EU to become involved with Brexit before then. If 'relations' sour during the limbo period it will be no surprise.

Will the EU be making internal plans for when the petulant child throws its dummy? Of course it will. To do otherwise would be a dereliction of duty.

Meanwhile the pound has dropped because the BoE has hinted at more money printing - quantitative easing - and interest rate falls. And Osborne has abandoned his budget surplus prediction for 2020. OK, the man couldn't predict the winner of a one horse race, but these things show the uncertainty that is out there.

Spineless man Cameron needs to act on A50 asap, form an initial negotiating team and get the preliminary negotiations, for that is what they will be at this time, started. Cameron's duty is to the country, not self-interest, and he is failing us all.

[cromwell]

Tony Blair says the negotiations need "serious statesmanship" and it would be a mistake to put a Brexiteer in charge of them. I think he's dropping a hint here..

[Suff]

I was under the impression she said we'd have to leave (2 years and out), before we could talk trade.... Which is BS...

However, if we fully intend to pull the plug and drive A50, there is no reason at all why they could not talk to us now. They just don't want to.

I said this durring the referendum and I say it again. If they're such a bunch of female sexual organs, then why would we want to have anything to do with them in the first place???

[Workingman]

"First you exit then you negotiate," Cecilia Malmstrom told BBC Newsnight.

After Brexit, the UK would become a "third country" in EU terms, she said - meaning trade would be carried out based on World Trade Organisation rules until a new deal was complete.

and

"There are actually two negotiations. First you exit, and then you negotiate the new relationship, whatever that is," she said.

"The referendum - which of course we take note of and respect - has no legal effect. First there has to be notification, which the next prime minister will do, I hope swiftly. And then that process can start."

That all sounds pretty clear.

[molly]

I was under the impression she said we'd have to leave (2 years and out), before we could talk trade.... Which is BS...

She did.

Ms Malmstrom, the EU Trade Commissioner, underlined that detailed talks to shape the UK's new trading relationship with the EU should not start until after the process of leaving politically, under an Article 50 process lasting up to two years.

[Workingman]

That's true, Molly.

She was quite clear, Brexit negotiations are about the legal process of the UK extracting itself from the EU. Only then will trade negotiations begin.