The crazy world of Owen Smith.

[Workingman]

I can't see that the P.M. has the right to deliberately delay this matter.

Unfortunately she has every right as the referendum was not legally binding. She could, if she wanted to, ignore it and go against the will of the people. That, as you say, would be too risky so all we have, thus far, is "Brexit means Brexit". When and how it will be delivered is unknown.

It was Cameron, as PM, who vowed to invoke A50 "immediately", but the first thing he did was resign and then run away to the shires. His subsequent silence on the matter is deafening.

[Suff]

I can't see that the P.M. has the right to deliberately delay this matter.

This was done specifically when they modified the treaty. It's because most EU premiers can get away with thwarting the people and can be pressured to do so.

I expect there was total panic when they realised that a Tory government would have a PM who was totally accountable to the people and could not be pressured into blocking Brexit.

The PM and ONLY the PM can either trigger or block Article 50. This is enshrined in EU law via the Lisbon treaty and, lest anyone was not listening during the EU referendum debate, EU law superseded UK Law.

She has every right to do this. Gordon Brown gave her that right. I doubt he envisioned quite this result though when he signed the Lisbon Treaty...

[Suff]

WM, if May and the three stooges don't get on with Brexit and make a deal, then the Tories will tear themselves apart with infighting as the MP's with the least majority and the highest Brexit vote, fight to keep their jobs.

[Workingman]

Gordon Brown gave her that right. I doubt he envisioned quite this result though when he signed the Lisbon Treaty...

Neither Brown nor the Treaty of Lisbon gave her the right, it has been enshrined in UK law, through parliamentary sovereignty, since the year dot. We even passed the European Union Act to make sure EU law, especially on transferring powers, is only applicable through that same act. There is no EU law telling the UK how to operate its referendums.

As for the Brexit deal: it looks as though both main parties have the ability to rip themselves apart on any number of subjects. Neither one is fit to govern the country nor have power over its peoples. Rats in a bag ... and all that.

[Suff]

As for the Brexit deal: it looks as though both main parties have the ability to rip themselves apart on any number of subjects. Neither one is fit to govern the country nor have power over its peoples. Rats in a bag ... and all that.

Got to agree with that.

I was talking about Article 50 which gives the PM sole right to trigger or not to trigger. UK law has nothing to do with it, it's all EU.

[cromwell]

Step forward Owen Smith, the man chosen by Labour MPs to challenge for leadership of the party. He says that he will try to stop the formal triggering of Brexit unless the PM promises a referendum on the final deal or calls a general election to approve it.

As I understand it Brexit is triggered when the PM invokes article 50.
During the discussions following this invocation is when the terms of our withdrawal will be thrashed out.

So by the time Smith wants to start talking about whether we are leaving or not, the PM and the EU will already have agreed that we are. So he is talking rot.

Best guess is that he is trying to delay our exit until after the 2020 election, which if Labour win they will doubtless say that the election gives them a mandate to reverse Brexit.

As No Win Owen has as much chance of beating Corbyn as I have of becoming Pope, it's all academic anyway.

[Suff]

Actually Cromwell, I thought you had MUCH more chance of becoming pope.

[Workingman]

Avignon had some, no reason why Wakey shouldn't.

Pope Crommes t' 1st.

[AggersAgain]

I still don't see why we have to go through all this legal rigmarole.

Why can't we just stick two fingers up to the E.U. and cut them off immediately?

They would be the losers, not us.

[Workingman]

We can't simply tear up treaties we were signatories to and take our bat and ball home, surely? Well we could, but the rest of the world would think long and hard about doing deals with us. The EU bloc would certainly cut us off and at the same time put pressure on its trading partners to do the same.

There are times when negotiating a way out of a situation is the best option, Brexit is one of them.