A50 case - government loses.

[Workingman]

John, the judges are poking their noses in because a campaign group, the People's Challenge, funded claimants arguing that A50 could not be triggered by the PM but had to go to Parliament.

The redacted version of the skeleton argument submitted by the People’s Challenge invites the court “to declare that the UK’s constitutional arrangements mean that only parliament can lawfully ‘decide’ to leave the EU for the purposes of article 50 TEU; and that [David Davis] may only ‘notify’ such a decision to the European Council under Article 50(2) TEU once he has been properly authorised to do so by an act of parliament.”

It also quotes approvingly from the 1689 Bill of Rights – a piece of legislation revered by Eurosceptics – that it “expressly prohibits the use of the prerogative in circumstances where its exercise would ‘suspend’ or ‘dispense’ statutory law.”

It is part of our democracy that any citizen can challenge the government on a point of law. If that happens then the case has to go to the courts. We might not like what has happened with the A50 challenge, but the law allowing us to make a challenge protects us from any excesses of government.

[Workingman]

Civil unrest is not beyond the bounds of possibility if Brexit is thwarted, I fear.

I said much the same thing, Ossie. It could even start before the Supreme Court has its say in order to attempt to nudge it judge the 'right' way.

[Suff]

I see the whole mess being because Cameron framed the referendum as non binding. He created the poisoned chalice.

I can see this working in one way. They can allow the vote and make it a vote of confidence. If the government wins it, then they trigger A50. If they lose it, then there is an election, the Tories campaign on broken trust, the other parties get massacred and they come back and trigger A50 claiming that it was a manifesto promise and the people had a direct and binding vote on it. They could allow Tory MP's a free vote on it too. How could she lose?

Making the vote to trigger A50 a vote of confidence puts the whole situation into an entirely new light. Because those who want to remain but know their voters will massacre them at the polls, are left with the stark reality that voting against triggering A50, should they be successful, will put them right in front of the voters within weeks. When feelings are at mutinous point.

It could be useful for the government to state that before it goes to the Supreme court where the judges will have to factor in what will happen to the political situation if they go against the voters and try to give the decision to the MP's even though the Public have, Democratically, Spoken.

If it does go to a vote in parliament, what could the Lords do to change it? Demand that parliament gets a vote on the terms? That's been offered already and would be accepted immediately. All it could do is force a delay of two or three months. Enraging the EU who are becoming more and more destabilised by the month whilst the UK goes from strength to strength.

Even if the Lords demand that the Parliament has a vote on the terms, what good would that do. The EU has already said that if we trigger A50 there is no going back and if we don't accept the terms we leave on WTO terms. Effectively neutering any say the Parliament will have on the terms because they don't have sole decision power, the EU 27 have to agree too and they won't agree with any single change our Parliament wants over and above what is negotiated.

This is far from over and May is far from out of options. The very demographics of the Leave vote must have put the fear of God, Hell and Hades into the Labour MP's who campaigned to Remain.

This is just getting interesting.

[cromwell]

Parliament has already had it's say on the referendum, in the European Union Referendum Act of 2015. MP's voted in favour of having a referendum by 554 votes to 53.

So having voted for a referendum, most MP's want to ignore the results of that referendum. How does that work? "Yes you can have your vote, but if we don't like the result we will ignore it"?

That makes no sense. Also despite it being an advisory referendum Cameron said that he would trigger article 50 the next day and stay in charge to negotiate us out of the EU; he reneged on both promises.

We need a new parliament, new MP's and new judges. All we have now is a minority elite determined to preserve the status quo.

[AliasAggers]

We need a new parliament, new MP's and new judges.

I'll go along with that. But how the heck to we achieve it?

A peasants' revolt? I'm all for that.

I don't see why we should have to take notice of these unelected, big-headed and incompetent sods. I thought we lived in a democracy? They are making a mockery of democracy. I pray that Parliament will have the guts to pass legislation making it quite clear that Parliament makes the laws, and that the Judges have no say in the matter.

[Workingman]

I see the whole mess being because Cameron framed the referendum as non binding. He created the poisoned chalice.

I can see this working in one way. They can allow the vote and make it a vote of confidence.

Ah yes, I forgot that the government could make the A50 trigger a vote of (no) confidence.

That really would put the cat among the pigeons. The Supreme Court would know what was on the table before it sat in judgement, the HoL would get no say, and the EU could go twiddle its thumbs. MPs would be in a bit of a hole, though, depending on the wording.

Go against the government, bring it down, get a general election, but one where the electorate know how you just voted. With an estimated 421 out of 574 constituencies voting Leave who is going to take the chance?

Go with the government and, well, you lose the right to trigger A50, and also get little or no say in the negotiations. May does not need to trigger a general election because she has you in her pocket. A win-win for her.

We need a new parliament, new MP's and new judges.

It is Guy Fawkes night tomorrow, we can but hope.

[cromwell]

The only man to ever enter Parliament with honest intentions!

[Suff]

A new boom sweeps clean even....