So if we did have another referendum on Brexit?

[TheOstrich]

So if we did have another referendum on Brexit .....

.... I would be p*ssed. Seriously and completely p*ssed. And so would Mrs O. I know it's a hanging offence, but I am "that" close to buying an EU flag specifically for the purpose of setting fire to it.

As for what sort of Brexit, WM, personally I voted for a hard Brexit on an anti-migrant and return of all laws and sovereignty to the UK ticket, and I shall be damned disappointed if they fudge it. I would rather have no compromise on the single market than a fudge if it means having to pay the beggars either a fee or accept some form of freedom of movement. Anyone who tries to thwart Brexit at this current point of time is to my mind a traitorous capitalist running dog.

Not that I have particularly strong feelings about the issue, of course ...

[Suff]

As for what sort of Brexit, Suff, personally I voted for a hard Brexit on an anti-migrant and return of all laws and sovereignty to the UK ticket, and I shall be damned disappointed if they fudge it. I would rather have no compromise on the single market than a fudge if it means having to pay the beggars either a fee or accept some form of freedom of movement. Anyone who tries to thwart Brexit at this current point of time is to my mind a traitorous capitalist running dog.

Not that I have particularly strong feelings about the issue, of course ...

And there are a LOT more like you and they have a VOTE and they are damned well going to use it at the next election. Because those kind of feelings don't vanish in the next 2-3 years. They fester.

I don't know if the politicians realise what kind of a firestorm is waiting here. Because all those Labour voters in the North who voted for a hard Brexit are going to sit their, stewing, till the next election, if we get some kind of wishy washy fudge deal.

Then they're going to protest vote. Could mean UKIP have a very good election indeed.

I'm sure that some of the politicians in that festering pile of cow dung actually realise this. I just don't know how many.

[Workingman]

And there are a LOT more like you and they have a VOTE and they are damned well going to use it at the next election.

I am very surprised that they are not making their voices heard right now in the same way the Remoaners have.

It is interesting to see what happens when the area votes are allocated as constituencies. About 75% of MPs are Remainers yet 60% of constituencies voted Leave. It does not matter how the details pan out it is still a lot of cats among a whole lot of pigeons.

Maybe that is why the government's plan for triggering A50 by the end of March was passed this evening by 448 votes to 75 - a margin of 373. Though why 127 MPs could not be bothered to vote on such a significant constitutional issue astounds me. I would name and shame every single one and then bring them before a cross-party select committee to explain themselves.

[Suff]

WM, most of the Leavers are older. We come from a different generation where we sit there and keep our own counsel and then do the surprising thing later. I see the politicians have just had a reminder of that.

The remainers are younger, on average and of a generation that goes about making a noise. Just like the Democrats in the US tend to be younger and those who are demonstrating in the US now simply can't believe that they can't shout or scream or rant or rave or burn things to change the vote.

I suspect the vote put a very timely "fear of god" into our "representatives". It also shocked the hell out of London when the "provinces" stood up and told them what was what.

As unstable a situation as Nitrogen Triiodide. No wonder the political whores are treading very softly indeed. No question of the usual "the people don't understand and we have to educate them", Blairism.

As for the MP's not being there?? It was a snap vote and not every MP is in the chamber every day. The PM, for instance, was not there. MP's do do constituency work and surgeries during the week and MP's who lead committees do carry out fact finding missions.

What I was surprised at was that there were so many for an overnight decision. I thought there would be less.

[cromwell]

The remainers had nothing really to think about - they voted for the status quo.

I think this is true, and the other way about as well. A lot of leave voters voted against the status quo. Welive in a country where the old manufacturing jobs have been largely outsourced, where we have poorer employment protection, where we have zero hours contracts, where people at the bottom of the heap are working very long hours for very little money, where in many parts of the country our children can't afford to buy a house. Where additionally we have unfettered immigration bringing pressure on housing, schools and the NHS.

That is the new reality, that is the status quo; and when Cameron stands up and says "Hey, aren't things just great!" a lot of people will think "No they aren't. Not for me. Not for my kids." and give a massive two fingers to the status quo; and that's what happened.

You will note that in the above there was little mention of the actual EU!

I hope there isn't a second referendum, on anything. The EU has a long and ignoble history of asking countries who vote the wrong way to vote again, I hope this isn't tried here. If it is it will be a signal that we really aren't any sort of democracy.

Mind you, if we voted "No" again it would eb the biggest laugh since I don't know when!

[Suff]

You know it's a funny thing but I remember when the aspiration was to get a council house when you started working. Once you had one of those you could then work on your options.

Of course the council houses were sold for a song, Labour, under Blair, rather than trying to get a new council stock built, made it even easier for people to buy their council houses and harder for councils to build new and not "give" it away.

It's like a stock marked Bear Run where a select few make money. Except, in this case, it was those with little who only had to be renting for a long time who hit the jackpot. No flair, style or particular acumen required. Rather the opposite.

Having lived through the biggest correction in the housing market, ever, I find that reading the press on it amuses me. I read about how the current generation is SO badly off. Really? Only in comparison to the generation (mine), in which we saw the biggest "give away" any government has ever done. Literally hundreds of billions of £ given away, which then rapidly appreciated into trillions of £ of net property value.

If you take out the current generation, young people are no worse off than they were before the 1919 housing act, at which time 80% of people in the UK rented their homes from, mainly, private landlords.

This became significantly better with council housing until the 80's and the "social experiment" of, quite literally, giving away massive value of homes to people and making them both responsible for their housing fate and, at the same time, wealthy beyond any expectations that they could possibly have had.

Naturally that kind of wealth causes distortions in the market. Buy a council house in London, keep it for 20 years and then sell it and buy two homes in the country. One as a second home to let. All of a sudden people who were unlikely to be other than working class for the rest of their lives are land owners and landlords.

Roll forward another decade. We have a recession. The entry to property is so high (because of the bubble of all that money), that those who could never have aspired to own a home have gone back to never being able to aspire to owning a home. The main difference? The council houses are back where they were in 1919 and the "affordable" housing is simply not there.

The press goes around telling everyone they are "hard done to" and the general attitude is set.

Is it any wonder that people are voting for change? Any kind of change? After all if we leave the EU it will get better won't it? Because all those furriners are taking up the housing stock and they'll be gone won't they?

In fact they don't need to create "affordable housing" projects with private builders. They just need to pass an act which stops any Council house from being bought under the right to buy scheme before it is 50 years old. One simple change. Having a reasonable council housing stock would hold down private rental prices and steady the market. 50 years at £300 per month? £180,000. Councils could make enough money at that to cover the cost of building and fund another one. Even if they didn’t get the money from the sale (which they should).

Then again it gave me Brexit so what am I complaining about???

[Workingman]

Poor old straw man, he is being kept busy.

"Sit down lad, take the load off. Leavers are not going to tell what 'Leave' really meant nor what they voted for. So, tell you what, I'll stop asking so you can get a good long rest."

[Suff]

Oh you can ask me.

Disengagement of "State" from "Trade".

That is it. End of discussion. No more USE, no more European Union (or disunion of squabbling parts more like), or at least not with the UK in it.

The rest I can live with. Including, if we choose, the free movement of people. Because that is the whole point. If we "choose" to let people in that is our choice. Being part of the EU means someone else chooses that for us.

I think the UK is a big enough girl to stand on her own two feet and make individual decisions.

If that costs us trade and money, in the short term, I'm fine with that. It sure as hell isn't going to lose us power and influence. The EU has been using OUR power and influence for decades and is sorely going to feel the loss of it.

If we decide we want to allow 300,000 EU citizens into the UK to work and live, each year, I'm fine with that too. Even if we decide to pay benefits for them.

Why did I want Leave when I'm fine with that?

Because the day we decide someone is taking the P1ss and it's not in our interest to do that any more, we have the "Right" and the ability to vote in a government and decide to do something else.

In the EU we gave up that right. For what? A terminally sick economy full of bickering belligerents who are all for themselves and devil take the hindmost? A group of squabbling kids whom, it seems, are only able to make the worst decisions, not the best decisions. A relatively powerless cabal who bask under the umbrella of NATO whilst failing to pay their dues in terms of supporting it with defence spending at home.

For me that warrants Leave. And I'll pay the cost. Which to me is a damned sight more than someone who has to choose between Spain for an international holiday and, perhaps, Turkey or Egypt. Not that there aren't some who live mainly in the UK who won't feel the pain too. But my assessment is that the vast majority won't.

Simples.

Interestingly my most independent child, who is the most intelligent, works in Government service and doesn't need to worry about any impacts of Brexit; agrees with me fully! So does her son. And she thinks things through and doesn't take any bodies word for it. Least of all mine.

[Suff]

BTW now that the ECB has proven, yet again, that it has no intention of doing what it takes to prevent the rest of the Eurozone from falling apart, provided that Germany and the Northern states are fine, the £ is back up to €1.19 and climbing.....

The Losers Club.

Has a nice ring to it.