Gordon Brown.

[Workingman]

I never took to the man, but I can give him some credit for his latest speech.

Following Sturgeon's threat that she will "shatter beyond repair" the notion that the UK is a partnership of equals if she is not allowed a referendum Brown has come up with a third way.

Apparently £4bn of funds are to be repatriated to the UK after Brexit. His idea is that it, and some powers that come with it, should by-pass Whitehall completely and go straight to Scotland, Wales, NI and the English regions.And why not? If everyone chipped in then they should get their fair share back: pro-rata.

The BIG problem - England. You Welsh ,Scots and Norn Ironers all have your own legislatures of some sort. We hated Englanders do not. We have Westminster and it is England's and the UK's parliament. We English have no local power over agriculture, education and training, environment, health and social services, transport, housing or aspects of law and order and so on as you do. We get what Westminster (London and the SE) decides to hand out, Maundy Money fashion, and how it is used is dictated from the centre.

For Brown's plan to have any chance then England is going to have to have its own devolved parliament, assembly, or whatever they want to call it. I'm in.

[medsec222]

The voice of Gordon Brown at least is a change from the voice of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon.

Nicola Sturgeon is reported by Sky as saying that Scotland should not be dragged out of the EU by a Tory Government.

Is that what is happening? I thought we had a referendum in which the majority of UK citizens voted to leave the EU, and the present Government, which happens to be Conservative, is carrying out the will of the people. Why do politicians have to put their own spin on everything they say. Do they really think the public is that stupid.

[Workingman]

I thought we had a referendum in which the majority of UK citizens voted to leave the EU.

That we did. What the media and (Scottish) politicians keep twisting is that 62% of (their) voters voted for Remain. The truth is that there was not a Scottish EU referendum, it was a UK one, all the votes went into the hat and Leave won. Live with it and move on.

[Suff]

Scotland does not need any more powers to accept a UK majority decision. So Brown should stand up and say that Scotland has to either abide by the decision of the UK or leave it. Of course the Scots would have to intimate they want to leave so that a new referendum could be set up. This could be done in the Scottish government where they could pass a resolution to have a new referendum, pending Westminster approval.

Of course that would not pass in the Scottish Government as the SNP has no majority and everyone else wants to stay.

Brown may sound like he's making more sense than usual but he isn't. He is part of the problem we face, namely the devolution of powers to the other members of the UK, which happened under his and Blair's watch.

If 62% of the Scots don't like the UK decision, they are welcome to push for leaving the UK. However, as we know, 62% of Scots don't want to leave.

At which point all the politicians should just shut up and get on with leaving.

[Workingman]

I am not talking about Brown's intervention in Sturgeon's Scottish referendum wailfest. With that he is playing politics of the moment and most of us have become fed up of the whole thing and have turned off. I know I have, despite the BBC's best efforts to make it a compulsory subject.

What I am talking about is the coming together of a group calling for a constitutional convention to look at how things might work in the UK post Brexit. Once we have left the EU every nation within the UK will have its own legislature dedicated to running things under its jurisdiction hopefully in the best way possible for its people.... every country that is except England.

The UK parliament will be, de jure and de facto, England's parliament, unhindered by any outside influence. This has never happened before. We English will have no way to challenge the government as a people on a day-today basis, unlike the Welsh, Scots and Northern Islanders. Their legislatures will be able to challenge the government either individually or collectively. All we English will be able to do is suck things up until a general election comes along.

It will be a situation that is no good for any of us.

[Suff]

It will be a situation that is no good for any of us.

I agree to that.

However what you are talking about is the US system of state and federal legislature. It's also the way Germany works. I don't have an issue with that but to implement it correctly will take more than politicians. They bollix everything up they touch.

[cromwell]

Brown is politically motivated in this. Labour wants those Scottish seats back. If Scotland gains independence Labour will never get them back and will face an uphill task in regaining power in the rest of the UK.

Apparently £4bn of funds are to be repatriated to the UK after Brexit. His idea is that it, and some powers that come with it, should by-pass Whitehall completely and go straight to Scotland, Wales, NI and the English regions.And why not? If everyone chipped in then they should get their fair share back: pro-rata.

I think I see where this is going. Sorry if I'm labouring the point (no pun intended), but Brown is trying to revive the old Regional Assemblies idea again. No thanks.

The BIG problem - England. You Welsh ,Scots and Norn Ironers all have your own legislatures of some sort. We hated Englanders do not. We have Westminster and it is England's and the UK's parliament. We English have no local power over agriculture, education and training, environment, health and social services, transport, housing or aspects of law and order and so on as you do. We get what Westminster (London and the SE) decides to hand out, Maundy Money fashion, and how it is used is dictated from the centre.

For Brown's plan to have any chance then England is going to have to have its own devolved parliament, assembly, or whatever they want to call it.

IF we got an English parliament I would agree to this. If the idea is that the Scottish, Welsh and N Ireland get their own parliaments and the English get nine half ar5ed regional assemblies, count me out.

[Workingman]

Cromwell, I think the choice of the word "regions" was not referring to political entities but used in the broader sense of places outside of London.

I agree that the only way it could really work, for all countries within the UK, is with an English parliament and a separate parliament for all the UK. The whole thing would obviously be Federal in nature, but how much so is open to debate.

[Suff]

I'm always wary when the likes of Brown use "regions". If they want to talk about devolved government for the "Countries" it works for me. Regions are internal English and, in no way, need a government. England needs a government and GB needs a central government with reduced powers.

[cromwell]

WM is right, things are open to debate. But when people like Ed Miliband start mentioning, as he has done in the past, a "Senate of the Regions" I do get a bit suspicious.

For one thing Regional Assemblies would vastly increase the numbers of the political class, and I think we have enough of them as it is!