Vocal Voices

by **Suff** » 27 Mar 2017, 02:14

Not quite how I remember it..

"Federalist hyperbole about a United States is the opposite of helpful to the majority of countries who want a reformed EU to work better," said a European diplomat.

The words Federalist Hyperbole is hardly a case of the words which explain that the EU is, essentially, in the process of becoming a country.

by **Workingman** » 27 Mar 2017, 11:00

Well if that equates to it not being reported in the UK press and it all being hidden then I am staggered.

All this guff about not knowing that the EU would evolve was used as one of the justifications for the referendum. We had whinges that "I did not get a vote on the EEC" and in the next breath "We did not know we would get the EU"... You did not get a vote because you were too young, but those of us who did definitely did know it would evolve - anyone who says differently is either lying or using selective amnesia. Claiming that it was sneaked in under a blanket via a back door is disingenuous.

Let me put it another way.

The 1975 referendum was the biggest vote for generations. We were told that if we voted 'Yes' it would change our lives forever. All of that was made perfectly clear. The fact that Denmark and Ireland also joined meant that we knew expansion was on the cards. And with Greece, Spain and Portugal waiting in the wings that was further cemented.

A political union was at the core of the European Coal and Steel community in the early 50s. That evolved into the EEC and that into the EU, but the core doctrine remained. Everybody but everybody knew that.

by **cromwell** » 27 Mar 2017, 12:51

Workingman wrote:Natalie Nougayrède was a teenager of the 80s, long after the beginning of the European project. What she was being taught was common throughout Europe, including the UK. It was seen as a good thing. What she is saying is not some new revelation recently uncovered from secret files hidden is some dark vault. It has been common knowledge for yonks and yonks.

I remember my lad coming home from school with homework containing much the same in the 90s.

That's interesting. It points up a couple of things, the first being that the concept of a federal Europe (and probably everything to do with the EU) has been much more honestly and openly debated in Europe than it has in the UK. (Yes, I know that this isn't setting the bar very high).

The diminution and maybe eventual abolition of the nation state has not been much discussed in the UK though, WM, I'd have to disagree with you there. Maybe kids have been taught about it in schools but there has been virtually zero about it on the TV, which is where most people get there information from.

Yes, it's obviously been an ongoing project (still is ongoing actually), with devolution / regionalism, the establishment of an EU Committee of the Regions and so on, but there has been very little information placed in front of the UK public. Very little honest information anyway. I think it's a UK thing; the big people take the decisions and the little people, well they just get told what the big people think they need to know.

Mind you, if they tried to sell the death of the nation state, saying that the eventual aim was to abolish the concept of the UK (or at least most certainly England), I don't suppose there is a lot of votes in that.

by **Workingman** » 27 Mar 2017, 13:39

Ah well, maybe it is just me.

You 'antis' always get to have a dig as I'm the only one who regularly speaks up for the EU. It's only fair that you allow me to 'go off on one' every now and then. :lol:

The topic might not be in the press and media 24/7, nor discussed in bars and clubs before the weather, but then I don't think it is in the EU either, it is just there. All I am saying is that it has never been hidden from anyone and that those with an interest in things EU can always read up on it if they want to.

Nobody can be forced, though, that is why I know sod all about Strictly or the latest celebrity diets. Each to their own.

by **cromwell** » 27 Mar 2017, 13:44

Strictly is good WM! you should definitely watch the next series. Pity Len's gone though.

by **Workingman** » 27 Mar 2017, 15:39

"Strictly" and "good" in the same sentence. well there's a thing. :shock:

No idea who Len is but I can't stand Brucie so will not be tempted.

I any case I am having my toenails pulled, without anaesthetic, during the next series. 8-)

by **Suff** » 27 Mar 2017, 19:48

WM, I have spoken up for what the EU wants to do. However I'm never going to stand up for the way that they are doing it.

Strictly. Ignore the bling, ignore the bad jokes, ignore the false TV rhetoric and just enjoy the journey and end result. There are always a few who find out they are natural dancers. It's wonderful. You must remember basic training and the change is wrought in people... I remember learning to Scottish Country Dance. It's about the journey and the ability. I just ignore the rest.

Len Goodman will be missed.