Manchester bombing

[Kaz]

Plenty were killed or maimed by them though, over the years.

[miasmum]

As I said I am not defending them, but the police managed to clear over 70,000 people in that 90 mins. How many lives would have been saved on Monday if the same chance had been given to clear people from the area.

[Kaz]

Very true.

Ossie, this is from Sadiq Khan

"We must now redouble our efforts to destroy the poisonous ideology held by these extremists and terrorists to stop another incident like this happening again. We must renew and improve the government’s anti-extremism programmes. We must build stronger and more resilient communities that can resist the extremists. And we must give our police and security services the resources they need in order to keep us safe."

[Suff]

Suff, that's the US? What does WWII internment have to do with the current situation? Are you suggesting we intern Muslims(

Obviously not or they'd have to intern my cousin...

The point I was making is that values change. The US, then, took action which, today, would be howled down. The reason they were able to do it then and that the supreme court upheld it, was that people understood the price of survival. Today people have no clue what the price of survival is, they believe that survival is a given and that they can be as totally stupid as they want and survival won't be compromised.

If we want to deal with the terror threat from the Moslem community and let's not be coy here, it is a terror threat from the Moslem community and no other, then we will have to revisit our values and beliefs.

If we don't then we just have to accept that every day could be a dying day and just get on with it.

No more candlelight vigils, no more hand wringing, no more taking rights from everyone so that we don't infringe on the human rights of the community which is causing this threat. Just direct and unpleasant action until we get a resolution to the problem.

We don't have the will for it so we have to accept.

[TheOstrich]

As I said I am not defending them, but the police managed to clear over 70,000 people in that 90 mins. How many lives would have been saved on Monday if the same chance had been given to clear people from the area.

Unfortunately, MM, that didn't happen in the case of the Birmingham pub bombing, in which it was only by chance my mate and I were not involved; the IRA blew up the two pubs that we were going to visit that evening, the Mulberry Bush (the British Rail "staff pub" outside New Street station) and the Tavern in the Town (a young person's pub). My mate Dave, who was a BR worker, decided against a trip into town as he wanted to watch a programme on the telly. We later sat outside our local neighbourhood pub on the Hagley Road wondering what on earth all the emergency vehicles were doing heading towards the city .... the thing was the guy the IRA had nominated to phone the Birmingham Post & Mail with a coded warning misjudged his timing and then couldn't find a working telephone kiosk. There but for the grace of God go us all. But that's all in the past now, over 40 years; let's not re-fight old battles ....

Ossie, this is from Sadiq Khan

"We must now redouble our efforts to destroy the poisonous ideology held by these extremists and terrorists to stop another incident like this happening again. We must renew and improve the government’s anti-extremism programmes. We must build stronger and more resilient communities that can resist the extremists. And we must give our police and security services the resources they need in order to keep us safe."

Yes, well, fine words, Kaz, but it's only rhetoric. Khan can make the same speech every time there's an atrocity and it won't make a blind bit of difference unless words are turned into action ......

Bringing in the Army - to release the Police from protection duties so the latter can focus on preventative and investigatory leads - is a positive start.

[cromwell]

It's all so predictable isn't it?

The attack itself. The reaction to it; the pathetic, cliche ridden, platitudinous speeches by politicians. The vigil. The multi-faith coming togethers. The BBC managing to worm in references to Jo Cox and right wing extremism.

Then the "concern" about "a rise in hate crime". What do they think blowing children apart is, if not a hate crime? Oh dear, someone has called a Muslim a naughty name somewhere and straight away the narrative about Muslims being the victim is rolled out of the garage again. Pardon me while my lip curls.

And it will happen again and again, because the "progressives" have control of the media and immediately propagandise these events (you can't call the TV news news on these occasions, it really is slanted beyond belief), brain washing people into behaving "appropriately".

[Workingman]

In amongst all the timelines and vigils and analyses and the hand holdings and services one thing has been missed, or worse still, hidden behind other weasel words and phrases.

These attacks in Europe are the result of a culture clash, get that CULTURE CLASH. Yes, Islam is the bedrock upon which that culture is built, but it has been in the making for over 1400 years largely unaffected or influenced by the outside world or other religions. It is as alien to ours as ours is to theirs and the two are unlikely to meet any time soon: oil and water.

So when Khan say this:

"We must now redouble our efforts to destroy the poisonous ideology held by these extremists and terrorists to stop another incident like this happening again. We must renew and improve the government’s anti-extremism programmes. We must build stronger and more resilient communities that can resist the extremists. And we must give our police and security services the resources they need in order to keep us safe."

He is talking bollocks. The "ideology" he so euphemistically speaks of is actually the culture within the communities he also mentions. Is he saying that we need destroy that culture and the communities? No of course not. He is playing with words to give us the impression that there is some light-touch, handy-holding, love-in solution to Islamic terrorism. However, as a member of that culture, religion and community he knows damned well that that we can only get some control be being strong, calling out the community silence and not giving an inch.

We all know what the response on the streets would have been had some nut job blown themselves up outside a mosque killing 22 and injuring 64 others. Please let us not pretend otherwise.

[AliasAggers]

I can't see that there is any easy solution to this problem.

As Suff says - These attacks in Europe are the result of a culture clash, get that CULTURE CLASH. Yes, Islam is the bedrock upon which that culture is built, but it has been in the making for over 1400 years largely unaffected or influenced by the outside world or other religions. It is as alien to ours as ours is to theirs and the two are unlikely to meet any time soon: oil and water.

The easiest and safest solution would have been to have listened to the warnings of Enoch Powell,
and to have denied them access to our country. Our politicians have behaved like idiots all these
years, and now we must pay the cost.

[TheOstrich]

The easiest and safest solution would also have included not getting embroiled in Middle East politics. But 9/11 changed all that ......

[miasmum]

Now that I do agree with Ossie