More attacks

[Workingman]

I awoke this morning to this terrible news, so the first thing I did was phone my son and dil in London. They live near the Olympic village and had been at a local multiplex cinema and are safe.

What was said, though, didn't surprise me. They will go to work as normal, because that is what we do, but they will be staying away from events and central London for quite some time. They cannot wait for Soph to finish her Phd and get back home.

That, Shere Khan, is how safe many people now see London.

I also see May has been out speaking of "evil ideology", "perversion of Islam". closing "safe spaces" on the Internet, of "difficult and embarrassing conversations" needed to "stamp out extremism across the public sector and across society". and for the country to "come together" because "we need to live our lives not in a series of segregated, separated communities".

Fine words, but much the same as always. Actions, Mrs May, speak louder than words and all we have had for decades is inaction.

Cressida Dick was a bit more realistic when she called for people not to overreact. Too damn right, because if we do 'overreact' we are in deep excrement.

[AliasAggers]

If there are 20,000 potential terrorists out there,
and 3,000 on the immediate watch list, then we need to bring in interment, now.
.....

We might need to, that is true, but it won't happen.
If Hitler had won the war, I'm sure he would have had a solution, but in a country
practicing democracy the obvious solution is just not on..

There will be more to come - you wait and see.

[Suff]

I saw this news last night. Mrs S was in tears. I'm long past tears and long into implacable rejection of both the actions and the ideology which drives it.

A good friend of mine, scholar of both Islam and Christianity (he's a Moslem), told me that fundamentalists and terrorists who preach fundamentalism are not Islamic. Because Islam forbids fundamentalism.

I chose to believe him. So if they're not Moslem and they don't deserve any of the tolerance that we bring to the Islamic faith.

My family, those who live in greater London and about London, I assume, are safe. Or I would have heard very soon. I wasn't going to mail or phone round as that would just cause more concern than if I waited.

Right now May is the only one even talking my language. Nuttal is not going to get anywhere with internment right now so not really worth talking about except as a historical example of how we used to treat this kind of thing. Whether I get action or not is not the point. If only one group is even talking my language, I'm not going to listen to anyone else, if actions don't follow, then I would have to look further.

[Workingman]

I am not an Islamic scholar, but I have lived and worked in Moslem lands, lands where no other religion is tolerated. I have seen how Islam pervades every fabric and second of their lives, from cradle to grave, so when I hear a Moslem claim that Islam does not allow fundamentalism I take it with a whole cargo hold of salt.

They are using Islam's definition of fundamentalism and it is not one we can recognise. Take fatwas. These are edicts laid down to Islamic law on just about any subject imaginable, but the fatwa handed down to Salman Rushdie by Ayatolah Khomeini was for Moslems to kill Rusdie, that sounds pretty fundamental and is not unique. Then there is jihad. Again it comes in many forms and deals with struggles. The latest and best known jihad is the 'Holy War' and is allowed by Islam. It is a Holy War against non-Muslims based on principles of belief. Not fundamental? And what about apostasy - leaving one religion to follow another or none. There is apparently nothing in the Qoran to say that an apostate must be put to death, but there is lots of confusion. Islam does not have a leader, such as the Pope. Any learned scholar or mufti can interpret the Qoran as he sees fit, and if in his sphere of influence the punishment is death then it is death. That sounds fundamental to me.

The issue we now have is with radicalisation, but we have a problem defining it. Moslems are already radicalised from the second they are born. Their religion is radical by design and intolerant of any other religion. That is not to say all Moslems are potential terrorists, far from it, but it is a very small step for an individual from such an insular religion to put his/her own extreme interpretation on some of the core tenets of that religion and then act upon them.

[Suff]

True, but even that last shred of legitimacy is torn away from the terrorists.

My issue is this. What do they want? When we had the IRA, we knew what they wanted. Namely the reunification of Ireland. With Israel it was simple, get out of Palestine and live up to our promises.

Today? What do they want? Control of our country, our world. Oh they talk about the middle east and our "interference", which is true to a degree. But will they stop if we exit the ME and Africa? Unlikely. So how do we stop this war? Talk to someone? Who?

[Workingman]

Will the media leave no stone unturned when trying to get political figures to make rash off-the-cuff statements about how we go about dealing with terrorism? We have not gone 24 hrs and they have been at it all bloody day.

It is fine for us, the public, to air our views, but politicians and those in security need to sit down and very calmly look at as many possibilities as possible and not come up with knee-jerk reactions. Yes, they should listen to what is being said on the street, but they also have to be left to get on with it without all the media pressure to "do something".

[medsec222]

And even if they did something, it is bound to be the wrong thing!

[cromwell]

The first victim to be named is a beautiful young woman from Canada. It seems doubly sad; she was a guest in our country and this happens to her.

I've had to turn the TV news off again. I've never heard such a procession of cliches, such a tidal wave of garbage, in all my born days. Don't they feel guilty at this propagandising, this attempt to instruct the public how it is appropriate for them to react?

We are told that we should not be scared. We aren't scared, a lot of us are bloody angry though and this is just not being shown. If you believed what the TV is showing you'd think we were a nation of witless bloody hippies.

[Workingman]

I nearly threw up this morning when Victoria Derbyshire announced the "vigil" and we were shown posters of London: Dare to keep on loving, and lots of flowers and cards, then came the interview with Cressida Dick.

She said that people would be asking whether the murderers were known to the security services, and it was right to do so. She also said that there are "tens of thousands of people of interest" that need to be looked at more carefully. Good for her, she has gone up in my estimation. But crikey, tens of thousands! The number is now officially out there and it is not a rumour or a guesstimate from some hack.

One day one of these murderers is going to turn up to a vigil and while everyone is holding their candles aloft and singing "We shall nor be moved" they are going to blow themselves up and take many more with them. Maybe that is the only thing that will make the likes of Derbyshire, Shere Khan and all the other peaceniks shut up.

[TheOstrich]

There is one national newspaper this morning - you can guess which - shouting "Unrivalled Coverage" of the latest atrocity across its front page. I find that beyond the pale. This isn't a football match ....

On the other hand, full marks to Ariadne Grande, Robbie Williams, Coldplay, Miley Cyrus, Black Eyed Peas, so on, for getting together and getting that concert on in Manchester. They didn't have to do that - but they did.