Two minutes.

[TheOstrich]

Another referendum would be completely divisive. Imagine the furore if it finished 52-48 to reject the deal or to stay in .......

I guess in hindsight they should perhaps have set a 60% bar to cross on the first referendum - anything less and we should have stayed in - but with a promise of another referendum in (say) 10 years.

Our politicians need to get a backbone and lay down a few non-negotiable terms of our own. If the EU won't accept them, we tell them we will leave with no deal, period. That might concentrate minds both sides of the Channel.

At the moment the EU are running rings around us and it's not pretty.

[AliasAggers]

To be honest, I'm sick and tired of the whole business.

I voted 'Out' because I believed (and I still do) that it was the best thing for this country of ours,
and I had in mind what I thought was the best outcome for future generations. I did not, however,
expect all this present thoroughly disgusting behavour from our elected political representatives.

I've reached the stage now that I don't care a damn what happens, as, at my age I will, no doubt,
not be here to see the final results. I am also beginning to wonder whether there is a better way
of running a country than the present democratic process.

[Suff]

I voted to remain and I still think that is our best option. However, it has to be remain in full where we keep our rebate and our veto, where we stay out of Schengen and the €, but where we still sit on committees, make alliances, and can help to steer the EU on a particular path.

WM, you know that this is never going to happy no matter what the cabal of reprobates in Westminster and the Lords think. When we triggered A50 we started out on a path which could only end in one of two ways. One we leave the EU and the other is that the EU27 let us back in but only with eyewatering conditions attached.

Anybody who believed otherwise truly does not know how the EU works. We have damaged their economy, their world standing and their world trade and investment. Simply by daring to ever trigger A50, forget any other considerations.

To believe that they will not exact a full measure of punishment to allow the UK to remain in the EU is fantasising. Did none of the Remainers, currently driving to try and undo Breixt, not listen to the rhetoric of the UK leaving the EU?

They are talking about total banking union. Total tax harmonisation. A federal police force. A federal Army.

For each and every one of these the UK is held up as the one and ONLY blocking factor.

So they're going to say all that and then let us back in on the same terms????

It's about time our dear Remainer MP's and Lords got a good hard dose of Reality.

Ossie, the people and the politicians can vote for anything they want. The only thing which is uniquely in the competence of the UK people and the UK Government to deliver is a full Hard Brexit. Everything else and I do mean Everything is in the hands of the EU27. Our negotiation job is to cajole, heckle or outright threaten them into doing what we want.

It is a pity that Politicians selling the country down the river for their own personal interests is not culpable for Treason. There are a few MP's I'd love to see in jail for life. It would also make the whole process even more entertaining than it already is.

I have not seen ANY press driving the fact that the EU DEMANDED that the UK completed phase 1 by Christmas so there was TIME to conclude trade negotiations and then set those very same Trade negotiations back 3 months when they had won all the concessions they believed they would get in 2017....

In 30 years time this is going to make incredible reading in the history books...

[Kaz]

My main concern is that we will end up with a Brexit and that is totally unacceptable to those who voted to leave and equally unacceptable to those who voted to remain.

Meds, that is the danger, and I agree with you, If we are going to leave it has to be completely out or else we might as well not bother.

I agree!

[Kaz]

I guess in hindsight they should perhaps have set a 60% bar to cross on the first referendum - anything less and we should have stayed in - but with a promise of another referendum in (say) 10 years.

That would have been very sensible!

[Suff]

My main concern is that we will end up with a Brexit and that is totally unacceptable to those who voted to leave and equally unacceptable to those who voted to remain.

Meds, that is the danger, and I agree with you, If we are going to leave it has to be completely out or else we might as well not bother.

I agree!

Senior Labour and Lib Dem MP's have been advising the EU that if they just hold fast long enough, they, the Labour and Lib Dems will be able to deliver exactly this.

But it's all the Government's fault. Well not quite all. It's also the fault of everyone who voted to leave....

Strange world we live in...

[Suff]

I guess in hindsight they should perhaps have set a 60% bar to cross on the first referendum - anything less and we should have stayed in - but with a promise of another referendum in (say) 10 years.

That would have been very sensible!

Sounds pretty good when you talk percentages doesn't it.

Until you realise that this attitude just disenfranchised more than 1M voters who tipped the balance.

That's more than 1M more people who wanted to leave than wanted to stay.

Really insignificant isn't it.

I, however, have decided that this is an excellent precedent to set. If the Labour Party wins the next election with less than 60% of the vote we'll just ignore them and leave the Tories in power for the next 10 years....

Doesn't quite sound so democratic now does it..

[Workingman]

Senior Labour and Lib Dem MP's have been advising the EU that if they just hold fast long enough, they, the Labour and Lib Dems will be able to deliver exactly this.

Only in the fantasy land that is Brexfail could that be even considered when Tories who want to remain include:

David Cameron, George Osborne, Philip Hammond, Theresa May, Sajid Javid, Alun Cairns, Justine Greening, Jeremy Hunt, Greg Clark, Patrick McLoughlin, Elizabeth Truss, Oliver Letwin, Nicky Morgan, David Mundell, Baroness Stowell, Michael Fallon, Amber Rudd, Stephen Crabb, Matt Hancock,Greg Hands, Mark Harper, Anna Soubry, Robert Halfon, Jeremy Wright, Ken Clark, Dominic Grieve...

All of them ministers or former ministers or prominent Tories. Not a Lab, LibDem, SNP or Green among them. There are, of course, also plenty of Tory backbenchers, about another 160 or so, too many to name. Are they also advising the EU?

Funny old world, politics, especially when the facts do not match the narrative.

I, however, have decided that this is an excellent precedent to set. If the Labour Party wins the next election with less than 60% of the vote we'll just ignore them and leave the Tories in power for the next 10 years....

Err the referendum was a binary choice and advisory, it was not an election to decide which of many parties, or group of, would represent us - big difference. If you want to campaign for an end to FPTP in favour or proper PR feel free, I'll join you.

[Suff]

Err the referendum was a binary choice and advisory, it was not an election to decide which of many parties, or group of, would represent us - big difference. If you want to campaign for an end to FPTP in favour or proper PR feel free, I'll join you.

Actually, no, because PR lets people who could never win in a million years into the system. If you don't believe me just look up "the list" in the Scottish elections and the Scottish Socialist Party.

[Kaz]

Suff, once Brexit happens that will be it, no going back. A government can be voted out again, in a maximum of five years. We aren't stuck with them for the long term. - unlike Brexit. It needed a bigger majority, but if we ARE stuck with it it needs to be done well, and here on VV I think Frank talks the most sense about it. You seen to have an element of schadenfreude about it all, personally I find it (Brexit) all divisive, negative and effing heartbreaking.