Where are all the supporters?

[medsec222]

I'm with you Aggars

[Workingman]

So, on the 29 March 2017 Mrs May should have just dropped the letter on the desk... and oh, Jean-Claude, it is effective immediately, as in NOW!

What a cracking idea! I can't think of any reasons against it. Nope, none at all, not a one. Trying - still nothing.

Having said that there is this nagging stabbing sensation in my forehead as to why it did not happen.......

[medsec222]

If no deal had happened two years ago Frank, would it have been any worse than all the dithering and posturing that is going on now. I am horrified by the backstop arrangement as it has the potential for keeping at the UK at the beck and call of the EU for many years - still paying them money. As regards no deal, maybe its like having a tooth pulled out, one quick sharp pull and then everything is OK .

[Suff]

No I'm with WM on the very good reasons for not just pulling the plug.

It was prudent and should have been a learning experience which either led to a reasonable deal or a Hard Exit with the reasons for that clearly articulated so everyone could see why.

However when the Referendum started with Project Fear and the current "predictions" being dubbed "Project Hysteria", that was probably a very naiif way of thinking.

Yes, had we just walked the pain would, by now, be manageable. It would have hurt, one hell of a lot, but we would have a handle on it by now, the EU would have been forced to actually negotiate and we would already have trade deals agreed with other parts of the world and our economy would have been starting to reflect that.

However, for what seemed like good reasons, we didn't just walk out the door. The fact that the people who were supposed to negotiate the exit, on both sides of the divide, had no intention of doing the job properly or in good faith, is a learning outcome from the whole process.

Not that the lesson will be learned, politicians are the very best at learning the same lesson over and over and over again.

Whilst I would have accepted a clean hard Brexit, day 1, I am not disappointed that we didn't do that. All I want is for the UK to get out of the treaties by March 29th 2019. After that everything and I do mean Everything, is up for negotiation or for UK unilateral withdrawal.

Let's not get sucked into the media fest that is going on right now. it is 99.999999% noise and the vast majority of the rest is a combination of outright lies and misdirection. The truth occupies the small portion of the point of the pin that is left. The pin head is far too large for the truth, it will become lost in the vast acreage left over.

[medsec222]

That sounds positive Suff, but don't forget there seems to be some reluctance from government to release the legal consequences of Brexit to all MPs so that they can scrutinise it, as they should do. It seems they are getting a summary but not the whole document. Why do I think that smells fishy.

[Workingman]

This gets me so wound up.

Another thing about the no deal, walk away on day one scenario is that it would have left the EU in a position of not having to negotiate. If we were not going to why should they? They could have let the clock run down, tick-tock

It is all academic anyway - IT DID NOT HAPPEN!

But in answer to Meds' last point. This is how it has been all down the line with the risk assessment, stress tests and so on. I am very surprised that parliament has not had the collective backbone to stop this. What am I saying, get a grip WM. It has now got to the point where something out of our hands could foment a constitutional crisis for the UK. We will see in about a week.

[Suff]

But in answer to Meds' last point. This is how it has been all down the line with the risk assessment, stress tests and so on. I am very surprised that parliament has not had the collective backbone to stop this. What am I saying, get a grip WM. It has now got to the point where something out of our hands could foment a constitutional crisis for the UK. We will see in about a week.

Well let us see. Labour has been wittering on about the Queen dissolving parliament and the press and media have not eviscerated them for such idiotic thinking. This whole "constitutional crisis" is nothing more than a straw man put up there to see how people will respond. Our government may be at war with itself but it is far from where the Labour Government was in the late 70's, regardless of what the press and media might want us to think.

We have the decision of the CJEU on Tuesday and the vote on the 11th. But let us think clearly here. Both the EU and the UK government have said that this deal is IT. No further negotiation, no options no do overs. If the parliament vote against it they have voted FOR No Deal. I wonder when that will get through to them?

Then, even if the CJEU comes back and says that the UK can unilaterally rescind the A50 notification, May has no remit to do so, she would have to have another referendum. Something May has absolutely NO intention of doing and no possible Tory PM candidate to replace her would do so either.

So it comes down to this. Dec 11th, parliament has a vote. This Deal or No Deal. No constitutional crisis, no broken government, just a direction set and full steam ahead.

Let us see what happens on the day.

[Workingman]

Goodness me, bracketing a possible "constitutional crisis" as a straw man is head in the sand time writ large.

A number of possible road maps have been identified by constitutional lawyers, academics and politicians both at home and abroad and they alll give various flavours of crises. At least this time there is some forward thinking about how to mitigate things should there be a crisis.... unlike, well.

Citing the Dec 11th vote as the end of things is overly simplistic. It could well be the starting gun for other outcomes as Speaker Bercow says the deal bill is subject to amendments. One already tabled by a cross-party group is one which would rule out no deal and allow MPs to give the government instruction on how to act. Labour and the SNP have also tabled their own amendments.

This has never happened before so there is plenty of scope for new precedents to be set. Ah, the beauty of not having a codified constitution, or maybe not.

[Suff]

It is nice to see the roles reversed.....

I am normally the cup half empty one. In fact my cup is normally totally empty....

[Workingman]

I do the half-full/half-empty thing by the bucket load.

However, you could not make this latest stuff up. Even the TV programme, Yes Prime Minister, looks dour compared to today's reality.

May now says that she could ask MPs to vote again if (when) they reject her deal the first time. Under Commons rules she is not meant to ask the same question twice - so she would have to change her deal ever so slightly. Swapping a comma for a semi-colon and using a few synonyms should do it.

Dec 11th anyone?