When nothing changes everything remains the same.

[Workingman]

And if media reports are anything to go by we are where we were.

The 'new' 10 year plan for the NHS is nothing more than words. The prime minister said the proposals marked "a historic step" to secure the future of the NHS, adding there was a focus on "ensuring that every pound is spent in a way that will most benefit patients".

Well that is not going to happen until the top-heavy and duplicated management structures, as well as the inefficient procurement procedures, are tackled. There is no mention of those happening.

We also learn that May's deal is still not going to fly despite the vote being postponed and the Christmas push to get it accepted. As far as 'the deal' is concerned the clock stopped on the 20th of December 2018 and is only now going to be restarted.

The polls surrounding that are all over the place, and so are the permutations of what could follow. Only 22% of us support May's deal and 53% think we should have the final say, not MPs. Nearly 70% of the Conservative's 124,000 members accept a no-deal Brexit, but that is only 135 of them per the average 70,000 voter constituency. Some 75% of Labour's 540,000 members are for Remain, but at about 635 per constituency it is still an insignificant figure.

Something, hopefully sooner rather than later, has got to give. I have given up caring what that is.

[Kaz]

It's all hot air, isn't it? We really don't have a clue yet how bad the Brexit upheaval will be, so all is uncertainty

[manxie]

I feel it is a sad reflection on the present political status.

How about a referendum for the whole of the UK and ask the following questions

1 do you believe what your government tells you?
2 do you believe what the opposition say?
3 do you think any of the news broadcasters are unbiased and tell the population the truth?
4 do you think things are so bad we should have a 5 year minimum coalition government to settle the ship?
5 do you think we should just quit the EU and go our own way as we have done for thousands of years before the EU and to hell with the consequences? I can't see how they can do anything about it

Manxie xx

ps personal vote 1 no 2 no 3 no 4 yes 5 yes

Manxie xx

[manxie]

a bit long but please read it. copied from a friend of a friend, about the EU

I’m still on the fence about Brexit but have always thought other countries would follow us (especially the Netherlands) and also - Spain/Italy/Greece/France would suffer if only from reduced tourism.

"I wish the Brits would take the time to see what’s
going on here. ... I'm a scouser living in Holland
getting on 40 years now. .... It is just as bad, in some
ways worse than in the UK. For example, Health Insurance is
compulsory whether working or unemployed. My wife and I pay
250 euros per month and that
is basic, no dentals, physios or extras. 2 major hospitals
have shut down - there are no beds - the A&E is the same
as the UK, families are asked to look after their parents
because of shortages in Care.

The immigration problem is a laughing stock, food banks
are not coping, people in work are not making ends meet and
are relying on food banks. .... Belgium, Germany and France
have the same problems. Angela Merkel is stepping down as
Prime Minister (Chancellor) but has forgot to tell everyone
she has a secure high position in Brussels.
Why would you want to be a member of a gang of pocket-filling
thieves who do not care about their people? ...
As for Junker ... don't get me started.

The EU countries are crumbling and no f*cker gives
A "dangle-doo-dandy", so GET OUT while you can and
maybe others will follow suit". .... They are scaring
and flexing their muscles and hoping that it will turn
around, because the membership fee the UK puts
in every year will have to be put up by the remaining
countries. .... Holland will have to double their fee
we've been told. ... What other countries can afford
this?

Spain, Greece, Italy all bankrupt, so you see the EU
does not want to lose the UK and will bully any way to try
to win it over by threatening the Northern Ireland deal, the
fishing deal, giving back Gibraltar and whatever else they
can get their grubby hands on, so don't be fooled, it's not
a bed of roses, things are bad here and like I said,
in some matters its worse.

The riots in France are not just about fuel tax, its
about living standards. .... Belgium and Holland have also
taken up the baton with the Yellow Jacket Demonstrators
because they're tired of it. .... Take the time to find
out yourselves, then you will be glad of Brexit, and like
I've said, with sense, Holland will follow suit" ....

TY Manxie xx

[Suff]

WM, my understanding of the NHS is that the PCG's and the doctors of the practises are making a fortune whilst the hospitals struggle for funds to treat the patients...

That imbalance just gets worse with every shake-up, whether it is Labour or Tory shaking the tree.

In other words, the core of the NHS is rotten and is beyond the ability of the government to fix in the current form. We have two choices. Destroy it and start again or keep on paying. It's like an echo of Brexit and has the same essential problem. People are willing to put up with what they have at almost any price rather than risk the pain and disruption of an alternative.

People get what they are willing to accept and that is what is happening.

[medsec222]

It was the Labour party who negotiated the GP contracts giving them more money for working less hours. I was working in the NHS at the time and the hospital consultants were flabbergasted by this.

[Suff]

Manxie, I have known this for more than a decade as I have travelled, lived and worked in mainland EU for nearly 2 decades. There is no magic here, the EU simply is not competitive. It is not competitive because it doesn't want to be competitive and therefore is a walled castle where the sewer is sealed up to stop the outside getting in. The EU is drowning in its own excrement but, by and large, the people are happy to wallow in it rather than take the pain of changing...

So much is completely clear about the situation. It is nice to see that others who come from the UK, but live outside the UK, can see it too. Especially someone who understands the EU budget and how the net contributors play a pivotal role. The fact that the Dutch understand that their contributions may double because the UK is leaving is welcome. Pretty sad that the UK remainers can't understand just how much they are paying and for how little in return.

However I challenge the part about the Netherlands leaving right after the UK. For one simple reason. The Euro. Getting out of the EU is bad enough, having to re-establish your currency, reserves, and central Bank make the whole prospect less than likely. Only the dire straits of the likes of Italy and Greece could push a member of the Euro to that. Much more likely that Sweden or Denmark would leave.

81 days to go. Let's see how much more self harm we can do trying to appease the EU for a Chimera of a benefit..

[AliasAggers]

Do you think we should just quit the EU and go our own way as we have done for thousands of years before the EU,
and to hell with the consequences?
Manxie xx

Yes, Yes, a thousand times Yes.

[TheOstrich]

I have given up caring what that is.

+ 1

Mind you, I think this is what May is hoping for, to be honest.

[Workingman]

Guys. The problem I have with the no-deal 'giving it one to the anti-democratic fascist dictator bully boys who keep shafting the UK at every turn' is that there is no turning back if it happens.

When it turns out to be the unmitigated disaster, and it will, it will be the UK on its own. There will be no cavalry charging in to save us. We might beg to be let back in, but we will be at the back of the queue. And if they do let us back it really will be on the EU's terms - no rebate, no opt-outs, no veto, join Schengen, join the €.

Sure, there will be a honeymoon period of gambolling Unicorns, bathing Mermaids, gentle breezes and clear blue skies, then the heavens will open. Kiss goodbye to regaining the sovereignty or control of our borders we never lost. You Brexthicks will have delivered us far worse than you perceive today.

Well done. Take a bow. I do not care any more.