The Dominic Grieve Amendment

[TheOstrich]

Conservative Remainer Dominic Grieve wants backbench MPs to be able to choose to debate and vote on Brexit issues, one day a week - breaking with the usual practice where the government controls the parliamentary timetable. Mr Grieve said those debates could then give an indication to the government about what the Commons wanted. - BBC

What do we think? Does this possible way of bringing some clarity to the current mess in the House of Commons outweigh the subversion of years of Parliamentary procedure?

It may well be that no particular solution to the Brexit fiasco finds favour, but at least we might find out if one has more traction than the rest. And I think most people now want to see a root and branch overhaul of how we are governed anyway, so one small step towards knocking down the established House of Commons edifice may be no bad thing …..

[Suff]

Ossie, I'm not opposed to having a dedicated slot for back benchers to make their feelings known on the most traumatic experience the UK has undergone since WW2. However I'm not sure that it will do one single thing to resolve the situation. The situation is simple, the people voted to leave and the majority of Westminster want to remain. Wittering on about why they want to remain when the people have voted to leave is, in my opinion, a waste of the hot air already generated in Westminster. However if they need their ego's stroked then so be it.

This is not really that game changing. There was no question that May was going to lose her deal. No amount of one day sessions with back benchers would have changed that for a second. But, as WM already identified, May had signed a treaty with the EU that needed to be ratified by the UK parliament. She did that without consulting the parliamentary party, let alone the chamber as a whole. No amount of dedicated time would have changed the eventual result.

Our government has an executive (the cabinet), which provides direction and sets out the agenda. The parliamentary party gets to discuss that and then support it (or not). This will not change any time soon. It is the same in most democracies, so this is not something new.

Much more interestingly is that when I looked at the news this morning, I read that cabinet ministers are briefing their constituencies for a snap election on Feb 28th.

So we think, "Yeah that's the press so what". Except that I received a begging letter for campaign donations this evening...……

Taking that to its logical conclusion, May promised that she would not fight the next election...

More amused viewing of the situation unfolding.

[medsec222]

I am very suspicious of Dominic Grieve. I don't think for one moment that he respects the democratic vote of the people, he wants to kick Brexit into the long grass never to be retrieved. He is one of those people who gives lip service to accepting the result of the referendum whereas in fact his aim is to overturn the result. It would be nice to get a bit of honesty for a change, but a large percentage of the population, both leave and remain, are now well aware of the conniving and backstabbing that is now so prevalent amongst our elected MPs.

[cromwell]

Sod Dominic Grieve. A slimy lawyer. Medsec has him right.

[Workingman]

Let me just take Brexit out of the equation for a moment.

Since the second world war the system has degraded. In theory the PM appoints a Cabinet of all views and it listens to a) the parliamentary party and b) parliament as a whole. It sometimes worked almost like that, but it probably ended after Atlee's second term. Since then it has drifted into grace and favour appointments to Cabinet by the incumbent PM. Macmilan's 'Night of the Long Knives' might have been the start.

The system is now probably broken beyond repair.

May has a fractured party and has tried to build Cabinets to please both sides. However, she has then ploughed her own furrow and stubbornly refused to listen to anybody except those who totally agree with her. This has led to her suffering the most resignations in modern times, and in very short order. This then resulted in her scraping the barrel only to fill Cabinet with people of no discernable talent. Yes, Brexit is the driver, but I suspect that she would have been the same even in calmer times.

So, the Grieve amendment. It is a shame it is being introduced in the Brexit era as an attempt to take control of Brexit, because in general terms it has merit. There is a good case to be made for parliament to have its day, but now is not the time to be fighting for it.

Will it work to stop or delay Brexit? It might. Will it be divisive? Put your house on it.

[Suff]

Will it work to stop or delay Brexit? It might. Will it be divisive? Put your house on it.

No argument there. But I also agree, it is broken almost beyond repair.

[Workingman]

There will come a time when the Grieve measures, or others, could be tried, but now is not it - the roller coaster ride is not over yet.

On to other related things. I know that is only a Sky poll, but all published polls are supposed to follow rules regarding social classes A to D and other demographics such as age and area lived in.

The latest poll shows that there is a 56%:44% split against a second referendum.

Sounds about right.