Brexit Reality starts to bite for Ireland

[Osc]

People eventually stop listening.

Indeed they do. I shared an article on FB yesterday, in which one line jumped out at me - *Brexit offers no good news story. Not one*. I have yet to see one tangible, verifiable benefit to the UK of leaving.

I don't think the Leavers gave one thought to unravelling 40 years, as Crommers has said - they were all too concerned with keeping Johnny Foreigner out, getting blue passports and believing lies on the side of buses.

[Workingman]

Absolutely 100% correct, Osc.

The anti EEC / EC / EU forces have been banging away with their "message" for decades; they have never let up. However, during all of that time the UK has become more and more intertwined with the rules and regulations, some 95% of which we proposed or supported. Yet here we are with 34 days to go and somehow, without any workable plan in place, we are going to untangle ourselves and all will be fine. I am not totally against the UK leaving the EU if that really is what the majority want, but it has to be done properly.

We have not done things properly from the day Cameron announced that there would be a referendum right up to the present. It is probably the major reason why many Remainers, and quite a few Leavers, are so dismayed at what is happening. Unfortunately I cannot see there being any delay on offer. The EU27 are so pissed off with us consistently failing to tell them what we want, what we really, really, want that they are probably looking forward to us crashing out.

The only way out of this mess, the only way, is to revoke A50, but we are told that is not even being considered. So, we crash and burn.

[Kaz]

People eventually stop listening.

Indeed they do. I shared an article on FB yesterday, in which one line jumped out at me - *Brexit offers no good news story. Not one*. I have yet to see one tangible, verifiable benefit to the UK of leaving.

I don't think the Leavers gave one thought to unravelling 40 years, as Crommers has said - they were all too concerned with keeping Johnny Foreigner out, getting blue passports and believing lies on the side of buses.

This! Absolutely 100% this!

[medsec222]

I should image a large proportion of voters who voted to leave did so to avoid the ever more political union of the nations within the EU. There is nothing wrong with a trading block, its the political union I object to. I dont want to be a citizen of the State of Europe, so I see leaving the EU as a definite advantage. Like everyone else though, I do have issues with the way the negotiations have been handled. My concern is for those who are at the lower end of the income scale, as they are the ones who will bear the brunt of any mismanagement by this Government.

I see the HOC meaningful vote has been pushed back again. I am not surprised people are switching off from Brexit.

[AliasAggers]

[quote="medsec222] I dont want to be a citizen of the State of Europe, so I see leaving the EU as a definite advantage. [/quote]

ME TOO - And so do the magority of UK citizens.

[Workingman]

Phew!

Millions will be relieved to learn that they are no more citizens of the State of Europe any more than they are of the States of Narnia or Shangri La - the places do not exist. To claim otherwise is to offload a pile of bovine excrement.

On the other hand we can rightly, and proudly, claim to be citizens of Europe in the same way as those from the USA, Mexico and Canada can claim to be citizens of North America or those from countries in Africa can claim to be African citizens.

[medsec222]

If and when we ever get out of this mess Frank and eventually leave the EU, I will be content to watch from the sidelines and observe just how far the politicisation of the EU continues to evolve. Unless it implodes of course, which is another alternative entirely.

[manxie]

I have the vision also like Medsec and many of my friends especially those who are like us in the Isle of Man and Gibralta , the channel islands who are not full members of the EU only the Protocol arrangements so we pay our dues VAT etc to the UK but don't ever see one single penny of financial help from either the UK or the EU coffers.

We are obliged to follow their rules with NO input, and absolutely get nothing in return so maybe someone will see how we feel about the whole situation especially when we see the complete shambles the politicians have made of the debacle of the whole process of leaving, they have had almost 3 years to sit down and agree on what the majority voted for and arrange with the EU where the UK and they can agree over many things that could be mutually beneficial to all members.

I have taken great interest in this since before the referendum result when we saw what happenned to Greece and its people, many hard working or pensioners who saw themselves suddenly bankrupt and unable to live with any degree of comfort.

I read about Italy trillions in debt, France also in financial troubles, Spain little better, and after Germany the UK is the biggest importer of mainly foodstuffs from the 3 countries I mentioned ...........if we leave with no arrangements for trade ? how many companies in those countries will go bankrupt or be very severely damaged by the loss of our custom??

I also believe reading between the lines that Germany is shall we say delicate, if the other big 3 I named crash it will bring down Germany as well, the UK should we leave will import from Northern Africa, South America literally anywhere in the world, look in Tesco or any supermarket at the origins of much of the fruit and veg on offer it is often from outside the EU.

We will see food prices rise but they are doing already and will continue to rise whether we are a EU member or not.

All I would like to see is that common sense prevails and leave or stay a lasting and mutually situation is put into force to correct what are percieved as the problems and get them sorted. I am oOK with the trade agreements but not with many other thins some still only in the pipeline of the EU beaurocrats the achieve dominance over the region.

Many say and I do agree to a point thar Germany is getting what it wanted politically after losing the two world wars for the same reasons as now, they want to control europe and many of its neighbours, I m old enough to remember the bad poor days of the 50s when people had very little in the UK and elsewhere I agree and nobody wants a rerun of any wars in the region, the world is in a mess in so many places due to wars, WILL PEOPLE NEVER LEARN FROM THE PAST???????

Manxie xx

[Workingman]

Manxie, I fully understand where you are coming from with regards to Gibraltar, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. As self-governing British Crown Dependencies their relationships with the UK go back way before the EU, the EEC and their precursor, the European Coal and Steel Community, even existed. Their status means that they are anomalies as far as modern international relations go, along with the Faeroe Islands, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Monaco and San Marino.

That is just how things are, it is not solely down to the EU. In fact none of them is a member of the EU, though some do use the Euro, and most also rely on EU members to provide security

I am not sure that anyone, anywhere, has any total solutions to the problems they face. Each is different and unique.

[Suff]

Phew!

Millions will be relieved to learn that they are no more citizens of the State of Europe any more than they are of the States of Narnia or Shangri La - the places do not exist. To claim otherwise is to offload a pile of bovine excrement.

Treaty on European Union

Title II - Provisions on democratic principles


Article 9

In all its activities, the Union shall observe the principle of the equality of its citizens, who shall receive equal attention from its institutions, bodies, offices and agencies. Every national of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to national citizenship and shall not replace it.

And that is why people were voting to leave. Because the EU is a state and it offers citizenship to people who are nationals of the EU member states. It is step one and it comes under "ever closer union".

Every time this is trotted out, the reality and the words of the treaty expose the falsehood.

This is one of the key reasons people in the UK voted to leave. Not for fringe benefits on trade, not for border control, not for reasons of race or hate or any of those. They voted to leave because they felt the UK was becoming less British and it was becoming less British via underhand and nefarious means which they could not address face on because our politicians are in favour of it, in the main. Witness how they twist and squirm in an attempt to get out of complying with the wishes of the people.

This kind of thing happens because people can't be bothered to fact check their politicians. Not that they aren't capable, any 10 year old school child can fact check this. People just can't be bothered. "Just tell me the results, I don't want the details".

Of course if you only go to anti Brexit press and media, you don't get one single benefit of Brexit. If, however, you go to the Brexit supporting press, you get dozens. The whole thing is so polarised that people rarely look beyond what they want to see and then they report, in full confidence, that what they see is, in fact, the truth.