So, it's another referendum. UPDATE

[Workingman]

On Sunday May again pushed back the meaningful vote, this time to the 12th of March. In doing so she peed off a whole bunch of MPs from all sides.

Today Tusk said that a delay was 'rational' though Rutte said it had to be with a purpose. May immediately rejected that offer and thus set the scene for what was to follow.

Labour has now said that it will back a vote for another referendum. It will table its own amendment for a comprehensive customs union and alignment with the single market, and also back a vote to delay A50. Following Corbyn's trip to Brussels the EU has already hinted that a delay would be allowed in either of those circumstances.

I am not sure what the mechanisms and timetable would be for another referendum, but I am sure that ways can be found.

I have never wanted another referendum on the grounds that it will cause more trouble, especially in our society. Unfortunately the two current options - May's deal or no-deal - do not appear to have a majority anywhere. If it does happen then God only knows how the question(s) will be framed.

[cromwell]

British politicians have to be without the slightest doubt the biggest set of liars, weasels and hypocrites on the face of the earth.
Most of them have now broken their own manifesto commitments, gone back on their previous comments and are now coming out with the most specious excuses for doing so.
What a despicable shower.

[Workingman]

It is now announced that three more senior ministers, as well as about twelve juniors, could resign if May continues on her current path.

It is all going swimmingly well isn't it Brexwits?

I could blame the EU. Or should I blame those MPs who have now broken their own manifesto commitments (sales pitches) and chosen to serve the country over party? Let's not forget that MPs serve the Crown first and foremost, then all of their constituents whether they elected them or not.

I'll go with those MPs who want the best for the country, and they are not the no-deal ERG wing of the Tory party. They are also not the May deal supporters, either.

[Workingman]

More can kicking, but it now looks like a no-deal outcome is dead.

On the 12th of March MPs will revisit the deal lost by 230 votes. It will not include any substantial changes, as we already know, so it will fail again. The following day MPs will vote on whether they support a no-deal Brexit. The answer to that will be "No!". The next day they will get a vote on requesting an extension to the two-year Article 50 negotiation period and that will most likely pass. Why it cannot all be done on the same day is a mystery.

The problem for the UK is that it can request an extension, but it cannot demand one. It also has to make clear the purpose of the extension and its end date, and also that it is a one-off. Too short and it will be a pointless exercise in collective can kicking. Too long and there could be resistance from some of the EU27.

Let's not forget that the EU has its own business to attend to. It cannot afford to become fixated or bogged down with Brexit. It has parliamentary elections in June and, more pressing, it has to get a budget in place for the period of 2021-2027. It does not have to play ball if it feels that the project could suffer substantial damage. Then what?

[Suff]

More can kicking, but it now looks like a no-deal outcome is dead.

And in killing it I wonder if the MP's realise what May is doing to them?

Because it goes like this.

Parliament votes to ban No Deal.
Parliament votes to extend Brexit.
The EU says NO.

Parliament has one choice. Accept May's deal. Because they have already bound themselves from leaving without a deal.

Laugh, I nearly died...……..

[medsec222]

We don't know that the EU will say no Suff. In fact they may be in favour of extending Article 50.. They really want to keep us in, as long as we know our place and keep paying the money,

[Workingman]

Suff and Meds we look to be thinking along the same lines.

We do not get to Remain and we do not get a no-deal Brexit. Unfortunately what we are likely to get is May's Brino deal that nobody but she wants, even though there are other Brinos that might work for both sides.

However, since my previous post I have been nagged by the thought that something else had been on offer from some time back - an extension of A50 to 2021. The pros and cons of it have been looked at by the likes of the Guardian, Express, Telegraph and the BBC and it is fair to say that it might not run. It is also fair to say that it is 'out there' so there must be something in it. And to be clear, this is not to do with the transition period allowed for working out the details of a deal, that will come after. This is about extending the A50 withdrawal process.

I am now beginning to wonder if this might be a little brain worm wandering about in the heads of MPs looking for an extension. Nothing about this farce would surprise me any more.

[Suff]

We don't know that the EU will say no Suff. In fact they may be in favour of extending Article 50.. They really want to keep us in, as long as we know our place and keep paying the money,

True Meds, but no party that tried to deliver that could survive it. Those who voted Leave would implement the maximum punishment at the next election.

Right now the EU is only likely to grant an extension on one of two grounds.

1. Up until the EU elections in order to get their (no May's), deal passed.
2. For the full term of the next parliament in order to align and make a full separation deal with a trade agreement.

In either case, there would need to be full commitment that the UK would do Exactly what the EU wants and nothing less.

If I were trying to tie the hands of Parliament, then this is exactly what I'd agree with the EU, before getting Parliament to lock themselves into a blind alley where they can only do what I want them to. There would only be one other recourse for them, after that and it would be to propose a motion to revoke A50 unilaterally, something nobody wants to do. Even then May could make it a vote of confidence and bring the government down, essentially timing the whole thing out.

[Workingman]

2. For the full term of the next parliament in order to align and make a full separation deal with a trade agreement.

That is the brain worm I was alluding to.

You then go on with your tying the hands of parliament proposal. and I do agree with most of that. Where we obviously differ is with revoking A50. If, after such a length of time, we look no nearer to a solution I am minded to think that unilaterally revoking A50 could be accepted by most of the public.

[jenniren]

Revoking A50 would not be acceptable to me and I know a lot of people who would say the same.