Brexit Reality starts to bite for Ireland

[Workingman]

Of course you can be a citizen of a trading bloc, you provided a quote to that effect.

Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to national citizenship and shall not replace it.

I see that you are now using the tight definition of citizen, but there are others, equally valid: senior citizens; citizens of a town or city; a citizen of a particular culture or social group; citizens of a geographical area such as Africa or Micronesia. Being a citizen does not always equate with being a 'national' of X.

What you cannot be is a citizen of a place that does not exist, such as the State of the EU.

It is true that I cannot provide a fully accredited legal document that the EU is not a state, that is because none need to exist. It is also true that you cannot provide a fully accredited legal document that the EU is a state. Opinions can be had from both sides, but as you pointed out with the A50 discussion they are only opinions until such time as they become facts.

The EU might have enhanced observer status in the UN, but the Arab League and the Red Cross are other organisations with normal observer status. None of them have voting rights nor the right to sit on the Security Council. Their status does not confer statehood.

[Suff]

True, but there are no legal documents which show that the Arab League nations, nor the Red Cross signatories, have been conferred "Full Powers" found in "good form" for the Arab League or the Red Cross to use.

That is not true of the EU. Every member state of the EU has transferred their "full powers" for the Treaty on European Union. That is the transfer of the powers of the state to another "State".

See it how you want, the EU has the powers of a state and has "citizens". No more need be said on it unless you want to, like me, split hairs.

Not that I care very much, if they wanted to give me EU citizenship, after the UK leaves, I'd take it. So long as my citizenship does not confer rights to the EU from my birth country.

[Workingman]

The sovereign states within the EU handed over competences in trade deals, product specs, rules and regs etc. They did not hand over foreign or economic policy, domestic policy, income tax rates or so on, and they all maintain their individual votes in the UN, votes the EU does not control.

So, the EU does not have the powers of a "State" and it is not splitting hairs to point that out.

[Suff]

So, the EU does not have the powers of a "State" and it is not splitting hairs to point that out.

Erm, sorry to burst that bubble and all.

Let us take one case in point. The EU, through the CJEU, is trying to force the UK to allow prisoners to vote. There is no doubt the EU has the power to make this happen.

This is direct, internal, competence of a government. It is internal national competence, has nothing to do with trade or trade deals. It is the power of a state and we gave it to them.

Don't tell me that the EU does not have power of a state. They exercise it every single day and very little of it has to do with trade.

[Workingman]

Keyword "trying", not that that is the case, and it is nothing to do with the CJEU or the EU.

The UK has already (2017) agreed to allow some prisoners the vote - those who are in for 12 months or less and are allowed out for rehabilitation or community service, if they are still on the electoral roll.

This follows a lengthy battle with the nothing-to-do-with-the-EU European Court of Human Rights (ECHR).

The EU cannot "force" a member state on such matters due to subsidiarity and proximity rules: see TEU for details.