Have we finally reached the time to change tac?

[Suff]

The EU refuse to budge on the backstop.

OK we have one final possibility.

We unilaterally revoke A50 then we VETO every single law, bill, directive, every single time until the EU is so completely and utterly sick of us that they will agree to anything in order to get rid of us. The Tories ally with the new Brexit party for the EU and campaign for EU seats, then lead the far right and far left in disrupting the EU parliament, derailing discussion and causing havoc until they get the message.

What's the message?

There are MUCH _MUCH_ worse things in the world than the UK being outside the EU.

Of course I'd need to trust my politicians for that. Damn. That's a bust, we could get another Blair. Think again, we might actually GET Blair!

[Workingman]

What!?

You mean that we could do what we should have been doing for the past 45 years? Making alliances with like minded countries to drive the EEC / EU in a direction more to our liking.

It is a bit late in the day for you Leavewits to be coming up with a plan, but better late than never eh?

If we do unilaterally revoke A50 it gives us the opportunity to negotiate with others from a position of strength. The last thing we need to do is to behave like a spoilt brat - we have worn that T-shirt. As the second largest economy and, far and away the strongest military and intelligence force, we could be in the driving seat. Along with Germany and other northern Europe neighbours we could put France in its rightful position as a passenger. We could BE the EU and make it work more for US.

[Suff]

What!?

You mean that we could do what we should have been doing for the past 45 years? Making alliances with like minded countries to drive the EEC / EU in a direction more to our liking.

It is a bit late in the day for you Leavewits to be coming up with a plan, but better late than never eh?

No, no, NOOOO.

Stay and screw the whole system up so badly that the only thing they want is for us to leave. Refuse to pay a penny every time they do one single thing we don't like. Mess around with the legal system, screw the council, mess up the Parliament.

Totally the opposite. Be such a nuisance that they don't want our money at ANY price.

Then invoke A50 again and see just how fast they can "negotiate"!

[Workingman]

I suppose your reply shows, if anybody was in any doubt, just how much you hate the EU and how much damage you are prepared to see done to our country, the one where we live, in order to have your dream realised.

[Kaz]

Who was in doubt? I certainly wasn't.

[Osc]

Suff, if/when Brexit goes through, are you planning on moving back to the UK from the EU that you appear to dislike so much?

[Kaz]

I doubt it!

[cromwell]

In your original post Suff, I think you make one mistake. Which is that rules in the EU are actually rules. Imo in the EU a rule is a rule until it becomes inconvenient, at which time it gets ditched. Examples; the way the books were cooked to let Greece join the Euro and the way the Dublin regulation was dumped during the 2015 migrant invasion.

The [problem we have now is the problem that we have always had. The political class of the UK does not want to leave the EU, It's what you might call an intractable problem.

I think Suff might love France but the EU not so much. The EU being a bureaucracy that sits above the nation state.

[Suff]

People who don't understand the EU should not actually assume my feelings.

I love France, like the Germans, think the Dutch are great and have friends from one end of mainland Europe to the other and extending out into the Americas and Asia.

The EU, on the other hand, is none of these things.

If asked, today, 66% of French would vote for Frexit. They are learning to hate the EU too. Not the Europeans, the EU.

Learn, don't assume that I don't understand. Spend a few thousand hours reading, digesting and analysing. Spend a few subjective years talking to people who live and work in the EU, across EU states.

Then you might have caught up with me.

Also, I don't even hate the EU the way you think. I'm clear, if a dog hoses down a lamppost it's not vandalism. The EU works the way the EU works.

On the other hand, the number of EU states which clearly can't stand the UK are quite large. Jealousy in a large part.

I'm not blind. I'm, not bigoted.

Cromwell. The EU has "rules". But rules mean what the EU say they mean. Everyone has to apply them but the EU institutions themselves. Is our government any different?

The EU is a government. It acts like a government. Why the surprise. There are people who hate Labour, people who hate the Tories. The EU is like communism. No matter who is appointed, it is only one party and I hate it.

Not hard to understand. You just need to try.

My OP was made to crystallise another possible way out of the EU. Today the EU is blind and determined that the UK will stay. My OP was that if so many of the UK people are scared to leave, then let's have the EU change THEIR mind. Just how much would they PAY to get rid of the unruly child?

A very viable and possible approach.

But, no, I'm bigoted, I'm a racist, I hate people!

So the debate is closed down and those who favour entropy win.

[jenniren]

But, no, I'm bigoted, I'm a racist, I hate people!

I don't think that for one minute Suff.

Tbh I'm heartily sick of being labelled in that way because I voted and want to leave the EU. What happened to respecting each and everyone's right to have an opinion regardless of whether or not you agree with it. One of the most disappointing things about Brexit has been the intolerance on both sides. I was even told I shouldn't have a vote because 'your view doesn't count, your life is over'. Honestly I despair!!!!!