The Express says Hunt Smashing Boris at the polls.

[Workingman]

I'm not so sure about that. Farage seemed to be in the right place at the right time.

There have always been Eurosceptics, in both parties, going way back to Gaitskell, well before even the EEC was born.

However, the modern era of Euroscepticism probably goes back to Thatcher's Bruges speech in 1988. Then came Maastricht in 1992 and the ERM Black Wednesday fiasco, also in 1992. These led to the creation the Referendum Party and the Anti-Federalist League, which morphed into UKIP with Farage in charge.

Rather than Europe being a dead issue Euroscepticism was on the crest of a wave when Farage came along and, in fairness, he has ridden it very well ever since. He saw off the Referendum Party and when he realised where UKIP was going he jumped ship to start UKIP Mk II aka the Brexit Party. He certainly knows how to play a crowd, I'll give him that.

But he does not fool me... if he was the last 'politician' standing he still would not get my vote.

[Workingman]

Johnson says that some parts of May's deal were good... so why didn't he propose amendments to the 'bad' bits to get it through?

Hunt says that he will not prorogue parliament (Johnson is ambivalent) but the backstop has to change or go. How? Please explain, with agreement from the EU and RoI.

Meanwhile we get Philip Hammond, the chancellor, who questions their, err, promises.

He says the Treasury had "built up fiscal headroom to protect against the cost of a no-deal Brexit" [So, there wil be a cost] and that money could be released "if we have a smooth Brexit with a transition period in an orderly way".[Not available with no-deal]. He also said that the current proposals on the table from Mr Hunt and Mr Johnson would already require increased borrowing [borrowing they say is not needed] beyond the government cap, or spending cuts or tax rises elsewhere - even without a no-deal Brexit-shaped "hole" in the public finances.[So, there is a financial "hole" with no-deal] He also says that there will be a £90bn no-deal hit to the economy; only £90bn! I look forward to Hunt and Johnson explaining away these 'facts', but they won't.

Brexiteers don't do facts or experts or truth, all they do is ideology and slogans - Leave means Leave, Brexit means Brexit, Strong and Stable, we won, suck it up.

Those are the only things Hunt and Johnson have to sell to the 160k AOLEs: the country and its people matter not one jot to them.

Anyone for a Red, White and Blue, cock-up soon.?

[Suff]

I'll be as offended as I like, thanks! We should all be offended by this fiasco, if we give a damn about our country!

As is your right Kaz. I was just pointing out that, in terms of voting for a new Tory PM, the only relevant polls are of Tory voters and Tory party members. I didn't think that getting upset, because yor own voting preferences put you outside of that sphere of relevance, was entirely constructive.

[Suff]

Johnson says that some parts of May's deal were good... so why didn't he propose amendments to the 'bad' bits to get it through?

Because Boris is 100% aware that this so called deal is not May's but the EU's handed to May to rubber stamp. The EU are categoric that they will not change a word of it

Therefore it has to go, in totality. If, however, the EU want to modify their own deal to make it acceptable to the UK, I'm sure Boris would engage.

British people, no idea how to negotiate. Just take them to an Arabic market stall and leave them to be stripped of their money....

[Suff]

But he does not fool me... if he was the last 'politician' standing he still would not get my vote.

Pretty much how I feel about Corbyn. I'm usre I would have a go at total anarchy before I voted for Corbyn.

Contrast the situation today. Farage has the institutional money backing him. The Tories send me a begging letter every few weeks and the press just reported that the Labour Party, under Corbyn, have lost every single large Donor and are totally reliant on member subscriptions. Labour has directly lost 80,000 members and they have another 200,000 lapsed members whom they do not know if they will ever come back.

Think the Tories have a problem with their PM candidates? Labour just lost 2% to sit 4th, Boris has pulled the Tories up 2% and Farage is second, above the Lib Dems on 25%.

Never mind the fact that the Tories *broke the law* by spending more than twice what they were allowed to in order to defeat Farage in his seat. Literally they Bought his defeat and were fined for it.

Today Hunt is finding out that Foxhunters already vote Tory but those who don't like it fall on all political sides, including potential Tory voters.

Overriding all of this has been the EU Institution Presidential appointments. What a circus. We're leaving and a slew of other countries have just woken up and realised that we won't be there to champion them any more. Open revolt to the Franco German alliance.

An amusing week in politics.

My ballot arrives next week. At lunch, yesterday, 4 members of my family asked how I would be voting. Only one wanted Hunt. #1 daughter has upped her rhetoric on Hunt. It has moved from "not him" to "he's a bad man". Strong words for her, but then she has been directly impacted by his incompetence and his issues with the truth.

[Workingman]

Because Boris is 100% aware that this so called deal is not May's but the EU's handed to May to rubber stamp.

Give it a rest with this nonsense. I have seen it peddled up and down the Internet by Brexiteers, yet when asked for verifiable details all they can ever come up with is 'the opinions of....' Can you do better? Can you give us verifiable evidence that May's deal is actually the EU's deal presented to May to rubber stamp..

Just one link to a checkable official source will do. Thanks in advance.

I also love the way all the Brexiteers have body-swerved what Hammond says, but then he is an 'expert', of sorts

And 'Oh look!' A poll that chimes with Brexiteer thinking is reportable as concrete evidence of, err, something. It's a funny old world as Brexiteers don't normally 'do' polls, experts, facts or truths, they usually prefer sunny uplands, unicorns, mermaids and rainbow dust. They certainly do not do consistency.

[Suff]

Can you do better? Can you give us verifiable evidence that May's deal is actually the EU's deal presented to May to rubber stamp..

Just one link to a checkable official source will do. Thanks in advance.

Oh so I have to produce some article in the press or some statement from government that this is the case?

Let me put that the other way. The EU whinged till the end of June 2018 that Davis did not tell them what the UK wanted. This is EU speak for the UK not producing a detailed exit document which they could rip apart and refuse to accept without changes.

Between July and November 2018 a 600 page brexit deal was supposedly written by the UK, agreed by the EU and signed by both the EU and the UK.

It took SEVEN Years to reach that level with Canada.

Don't tell me to give it a rest, it is the fantasy story of those who do not want to exit who need to give it a rest.

There may be a wall of silence around this, but the EU already made every statement needed to prove it. It is impossible for the EU to move that fast unless it was already Pre written and partially approved by the leaders before the UK ever saw it.

Those who want to remain may choose to forget everything the EU says 30 seconds after they say it, after all they have been doing that for 46 odd years, but not all of us do!

[Kaz]

Suff, it may or may not have been constructive, but I am certainly entitled to give my opinions on here without being patronised. As you do. At length.

[medsec222]

Well done Anne Widdecome in her maiden speech. It didn't take her long to clearly identified the horse trading and behind the scenes stitch-ups that go on in this corrupt organisation. Why would anyone want to be a part of such an organisation. I am sorry but I just don't get it.

[Workingman]

Suff, you stated an opinion framed as a fact - "Because Boris is 100% aware that this so called deal is not May's but the EU's handed to May to rubber stamp." - and because of that I asked for verifiable proof from an official source.

The fact that you have responded with more opinions, apart from the attempted Canada straw-man, tells me that there is no proof.

Meds, Widdecombe got it wrong about the EU's democracy. It has its methods for selecting the people for the top jobs and they have been agreed by all 28 member states. The heads of those states, elected by their own people, put forward the nominees and they are then voted on. The EU parliament is a chamber of elected MEPs and that, ironically, is how she got to be there to make her speech. EU democracy served her well today.

What I do not get is all the invective about her comments regarding the oppressed, the slaves, the peasantry and colonies. She is factually right, though wildly out of context.