Sales of EVs and hybrids have fallen.

[Workingman]

Cue much hand-wringing, consternation and questioning from government and the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), and what have they come up with.

Well:

EVs and hybrids are too expensive without subsidies and they will or have disappeared

The charging infrastructure is not there

There are too few models to choose from

They still do not have the range or fast charge needed for a lot of 'normal' users

They are not as 'green' as the hype would have us believe. See EU rules for 2021.

By and large they are a good idea and could wean us off the use of a lot of fossil fuel - provided the alternative is green power. However, they have fallen into the same chicken and egg problem as colour TVs. People hung on to their B&W sets until the colour TV service was up and running and proved to work before they went out and bought a new one. Another problem for EVs is the work being done on hydrogen powered vehicles.

The beauty of hydrogen, for some, is that current engines with just a few tweaks will run perfectly well on it. So, no big tooling up or new plants for manufacturers. They could be filled up at 'traditional' type filling stations, so they need very little new infrastructure.

However, current methods of producing hydrogen, mainly from water, are expensive and not very green. Crack those nuts and hydrogen looks like a win-win for us all.

[TheOstrich]

You won't get the majority of people to commit to an electric vehicle until the infrastructure is there at the very least.

The hydrogen alternative is interesting, and at the RailLive Exhibition a few weeks back, a prototype 4-car electric unit, now additionally fitted with a hydrogen power pack (to make it bi-mode) was demonstrated. I believe it will be trialled later this year on the main line, possibly in Scotland.

[Workingman]

You won't get the majority of people to commit to an electric vehicle until the infrastructure is there at the very least.

And who will pay for it?

The EV manufacturers? No.

The electricity companies? No

The owners of the EVs via, you know, by a sort of tax only for them. Something like fuel tax for us petrol and diesel users. Definitely not.

So who will pay....? I'll give each and every one of you a clue - look in a mirror.

[cromwell]

There's also the problem of disposing of the not very green at all batteries once they have been used up, how long the battery life is and the cost of replacing the battery, none of which gets a lot of publicity.
Agree about the infrastructure too. How many more power stations would we need tomorrow if we all bought an electric car?

[Workingman]

There is now a report out from the Centre for Research into Energy Demand Solutions (CREDS) - do these people choose their names so that the acronym looks like a word? - saying that electric cars 'will not solve transport problem,'

Well if they are the same size (they are) and are used in the same way (they are) as petrol / diesel cars then of course they will not solve the 'transport' problem.

The only ways to solve the transport problem are to wean us off cars and alter the work practices of millions of people, and they will require £millions in investment. That cost investment can only come from government and it does not look like happening any time soon, from any party.

I am approaching the age when once my present car kicks the bucket it will not be replaced, but I have to say that my recent usage of public transport does not inspire me one jot. I can see me using Uberish vehicles for shopping trips and hire cars for days out or holidays, but it will mean a whole lifestyle change. I can do it, but millions of families cannot.

[Kaz]

Decent, reliable, affordable public transport has to be a major part of the solution.

[Workingman]

It certainly does, Kaz, but it is not just as simple as more buses and cheaper fares.

When I was in Saudi there were loads of smaller buses, 20 seater jobs, and they were everywhere. You could buy a day / week / month pass in most shops and supermarkets and just flash it to the driver as you got on. The buses ran everywhere and were always full - day and night. The other interesting thing was that supermarkets became hubs for different routes. There were no direct cross town buses, but you could get one to the supermarket, hop off and get on another. It took some getting used to, but it worked.

Here in Leeds we also have hubs dotted at shopping centres or large supermarkets in the suburbs. Smaller buses come in from the outlying towns and villages then the big buses go into the city centre. The big buses run every ten minutes so there is never a long wait. It's not perfect for everyone, but it works for most, and the buses are clean, well maintained and well used throughout the day.

We also have day / week / month and year passes (individual and family) and the cost is based on a zonal system - inner suburbs, outer suburbs, towns and villages. With a £4.50 day rider ticket I can get from Leeds city centre out to Wetherby, Harrogate or even Skipton.

[Kaz]

It's not dissimilar here Frank. A £3.60 day rider will take you anywhere in Gloucester, and a £5 megarider anywhere in Gloucester and Cheltenham, quite a large area. Many of the buses here run every 10 minutes, including the 10, which is a Stagecoach Gold, with free wifi, that runs between Glos and Cheltenham, and is "my" bus, when I use one.

[JoM]

We pay £4.20 for a local day pass, just for the immediate Cannock area although it covers going to Stafford, and £6.30 for a Midlands one although with that I could get as far as Wrexham if I had the patience

We no longer have a Sunday service here, not just on our route but Arriva simply don't operate on Sundays now. It's really messed with people who relied on the buses to get to work in Wolverhampton and Stafford, and hospital visitors without cars.

West Midland Travel or whatever they call themselves now have recently reintroduced a service between Cannock and Birmingham but I can't see that lasting for long seeing as it takes around 90 minutes

[Workingman]

Yes, Kaz, things can be done, but we have to change this perception that buses are dirty and full of the dregs of the earth. Many of them are super clean and very efficient.

Get that into the minds of potential users and lots more of us would give them a try.

What's £5 for a day pass when a bucket of chicken bits or a burger and chips is the same price and considered 'cheap' by the plebocenti?

Jo, you need to get organised. We did and bombarded WY Metro (the transport authority) with our ideas. Not all were taken on board, but many were... and we always have a presence at their meetings. They don't like it, but they are public meetings.

Start your own group and get involved. Turn on the taps and put the pressure on - it does work.