Prorogue parliament: will you?

[Workingman]

Well maybe not, Mr Johnson.

This afternoon MPs used the NI Bill as a means to try to prevent Johnson from proroguing parliament. They did it via an amendment and it was passed 315 to 274 - a majority of 41. It was a dirty trick to use, but then dirty tricks (prorogation) sometimes need dirtier tricks to combat them.

Another defeat on a related issue came from the HoL 315 - 273.

The results do not directly prevent the prorogation of parliament, but the numbers are very interesting regarding the business.

Ministers Hunt and Bradley were paired so did not vote along with two other opposition MPs. Ministers Hammond, Gauke, Clark and Stewart voted against the government. Some 30 Tory MPs abstained and another 17 voted against. That cohort represents about 20% of the Tory parliamentary group of MPs and could be boosted by maybe 12 more from cabinet once the reshuffle is done.

It's a strong shot across the bows of the incoming PM. Odds for an early no confidence vote: 12/5.

[TheOstrich]

Very interesting. I wonder how many Tory MPs are going to be "deselected" before the next GE …...

[Workingman]

A few, many or hardly any... but to what purpose?

If what some are saying is true then all the Tories disaffected with their traitorous MPs are going to vote for Faragistas anyway.

[Suff]

Not just their Tory MP's. Labour too.

But there will be some deselections, that is pretty certain. This level of betrayal won't be suffered without action.

As for shutting down Parliament, there is more than one way to do that. Also, as I read, this bill requires parliament to sit every two weeks. It only takes 24 hours to override Parliament on Brexit. Even Grieve has admitted that there are probably more ways for the PM to defy parliament than there are for Parliament to tie the PM's hands. The only reason May did not is that she didn't want to.

[Workingman]

This gets even crazier.

The BBC is reporting a move by senior Tories to get the Queen involved. It is something known as a humble address to the Queen.

It comes about because of fears of Johnson as PM

The Queen, as head of state, could be asked by parliament to request from the EU an extension of A50. The EU will only accept such requests from a head of state or head of government, so parliament will effectively be going over the head of the PM.

None of this is right.

Proroguing parliament is traditionally used to call a general election, but that went out with the fixed term parliament act. It is not to be used to force through constitutional change.

Bringing the Monarchy back into active politics? That really would cause a constitutional crisis.

[Workingman]

And in a further twist the Tory 1922 committee is this evening looking at rule changes to protect any newly elected (by the party membership) PM from a Tory backbench challenge for 12 months from the day they take office.

This is obviously because there are rumblings about Johnson and his suitability, or otherwise, for the job. The man is not yet in office and already people are looking to get rid!

It comes on top of the earlier rule change to protect a leader from from a further challenge for one year should they survive a no confidence vote, as happened with May. Look at the Gordian Knots that had to be untied to shift her even though it was plain she had lost the plot.

It is all Tory in-fighting, so does not include us outsiders, but it is more evidence that with Tories it is party before all else.

[Suff]

All of this was relatively easy to predict. May was going to crash and burn, Johnson was going to replace her. Those who voted down the government on no deal and every negotiating measure the government had, were always going to challenge Johnson as soon as he took office,even though he won more than 50% of the MP votes to get to the members ballot.

It was clear that the 1922 commission would give the new PM time to enact Brexit.

What was not clear, apparently, is that with every tantrum over Brexit and no deal, the powers of MPs and the sitting government, diminished. Whilst, at every step, Parliament attempted to keep the EU as a force which is superior to the UK parliament in UK affairs.

Personally I hope the voters eviscerate them at the next election.

The more this goes on, the more likely it is that the UK will leave without a deal, because the EU will believe that we will not leave without one and they do not need to negotiate and Boris will not tell everyone how he is going to make it happen. He will just do it and Parliament will be left to howl at the moon.

That is where we are going right now unless some odd magic happens and Hunt wins.

To recap and understand how we got to where we are, this BBC article is, surprisingly, very well worth the read.

Note it reiterates, several times, something I have been saying for years now. The UK does not understand the EU and the EU does not have a cat in hells chance of understanding the UK, nor do they care to try any more than we do.

Note the timings, actions and who did what, then think again about my total conviction that "May's deal" is nothing of the sort.

[Workingman]

I think that people should click the link (item 3) and watch the programme. It is far more revealing than the article, but it is also in the past.

In the present we have a potential new PM who will prorogue parliament in order to force through constitutional change against the wishes of the UK's population. That is why MPs, and others, are lining up to try to prevent it from happening.

Using prorogation in this way is a dictatorial act in itself and yet it seems that the most likely way to prevent it is to invoke the Monarchy and use its "powers". Another act fraught with danger.

Fortunately "support" for the Monarchy is largely about the individuals, the palaces, pomp and circumstance, garden parties, duty, births, marriages and deaths. Political support hardly exists, anywhere.

However, any attempts to re-politicise the Monarchy or give it "real" powers really will be met with strong resistance, and not only from Republicans.

Brexit has broken this country and it will never be the same again. Cameron and Farage are mostly to blame, but there are other players in the press and wider media who have done their bit; sadly stupid people in the shires and up and down the land have fallen for it.

[TheOstrich]

To recap and understand how we got to where we are, this BBC article is, surprisingly, very well worth the read.

Thanks for that, Suff, it was indeed a good, balanced read.

[Workingman]

To recap and understand how we got to where we are, this BBC article is, surprisingly, very well worth the read.

Thanks for that, Suff, it was indeed a good, balanced read.

Os, did you watch the programme?

OK, question:

Should Johnson prorogue parliament to force through a no deal Brexit nobody wants or voted for?

Supplementaries:

If so, why?

Should he be stopped?

If not, why not?

Over.