EV's by 2030, a pipe dream or

[Suff]

Revenge.

A while back I was reading in the press about rules of origin and the fact that the EU was refusing to allow vehicles assembled in the UK with a significant proportion of foreign components (more than 40%), to be deemed UK.

But also in the Climate press, I read that EU made electric vehicles contain as much as 75% components from Asia, specifically because the EU doesn't have a battery manufacturing plant yet which can provide batteries for these vehicles. Yes, they say they are investing in them, but they are also writing 10 year contracts, or more, for supply from China and South Korea.

So is this really revenge or even a negotiating tactic for a deal. I.e. give us what we want now or VW won't be selling any EV's to the UK without 10% tariffs on them.

The irony of this is that the only EV's made in Germany that will be viable to sell to the UK, sans tax, will be Tesla's. Because the US manufacturer intends to have a battery plant in Berlin.

Wheels within wheels within wheels. VW is flat out migrating from fossil fuel to EV. VW sells around a quarter of a million vehicles in the UK each year.

The threat is palpable. Also, in control of our own tariffs, the UK could levy more than 10%. We already have a trade deal with Japan which it would not impact. South Korea too I believe.

It is an interesting game to work out what really lies behind these decisions.

[Workingman]

EV's by 2030, a pipe dream or

Pipe dream.

Next!

[cruiser2]

Will new houses have charging points installed as standard?

Where will chaging points be for car owners who live in flats? Need a long lead from the tenth floor!!

[cromwell]

We don't have the electric infrastructure and we aren't building it. A petrol car can last 15 years, easy, so buy one on 2029 and wait. This particular piece of gesture politics is even sillier than usual.

[Suff]

As a checkpoint, Norway will go totally EV for new vehicles in 2025. They put the effort in, are in progress of providing charging points and have quite a large penetration of EV.

Ask yourself this. Where do you fuel your vehicle today?

Yes, there needs to be a huge investment in EV charging points. But it is not as if everyone will be charging these vehicles every day or more than once per day. The EV's on sale don't have a 70 mile range. In fact nothing on sale in the UK has a real range much less than 200 miles. Range is getting longer, not less, so by 2030 that 200 miles may be closer to 350 miles.

Also, I specifically stated that it will take 15 years, after 2020, at current sales levels, for EV's to be more than 80% of the vehicles on the road.

So, from this statement, today, we have 25 years to ramp up infrastructure and charging points.

Just how crap are we supposed to be? If we don't stick this stake in the ground we will not transition off fossil fuels before 2100 and half the world will have left us behind. If we want to be a world leader we need to look forward and lead. In that way we can transition out industries, products and processes and sell them to the world.

We should be looking outward but, far too often, we are looking at our feet.

[Workingman]

Norway?

You mean the one with an area of 385,207 km2, a population of 5,432,580 and a pop density of 14.2/km2. That Norway? Compared to the UK with an area of 242,495 km2, a population of 67,886,004 and a pop density of 270.7/km2. Apples and oranges, what?

Where do I fill up? Local garage - 12 pumps, nozzle in and out in under three minutes, pay at the pump. Full tank £39 from running on fumes - range in urban mode ~ 412 miles.

Where does and EV "fill up" home or communal charge point? How long to 80%? Oh yes, that's 6-12 hours on a slow charger, 4-5 hours on a fast charge and 20 mins to 1 hour on rapid chargers.

There are 35,327 public charge points today and 19,405 are fast chargers the 4-5 hour ones. We are currently adding 5.400 per year so at current rates by 2030 we should have ~ 90,000. There are currently about 40 million cars on the road so when we get to 80% that will be 32 million - that's on heck of a lot of charging points, private and public, to install. We had better get our skates on - elec battery ones, obviously.

[Kaz]

What about if we need the car in a hurry, an emergency say, but it's not charged

[Suff]

What if you need the car in a hurry or an emergency and it has no fuel in it? You can put 100 miles into modern EV's within 10 minutes with high performance superchargers. You only need enough power to get to one.

Thing is we have become complacent with our modern cars. I recall driving a car with a 10 gallon tank and 30mpg. I also recall running my car on a quarter tank most of the month. In fact it used to be on red a lot and no money to put fuel in during an emergency. At least with EV you can stick it on the account and pay it at the end of the month.

Also good to remember the fuel cost is circa 120mpg prices. Meaning it is cheaper to refuel and easier to keep topped up.

We will be forced to look at things differently when this goes into effect.

I read what EV owners write and I haven't seen anyone who wants to go back after getting an EV. Even those who were mad enough to buy them with tiny batteries.

When the Nissan Leaf came out average battery sizes were around 25kw/h. Today averages are around 50kw/h and they are also much more efficient. Meaning more than double the range.

[Suff]

Another point oft forgotten in the EV's are so difficult. Not only can you have the option of filling them up at home, if you have solar panels, you can make your own fuel.

Different viewpoints.

[cromwell]

Where do I fill up? Local garage - 12 pumps, nozzle in and out in under three minutes, pay at the pump. Full tank £39 from running on fumes - range in urban mode ~ 412 miles.

Where does and EV "fill up" home or communal charge point? How long to 80%? Oh yes, that's 6-12 hours on a slow charger, 4-5 hours on a fast charge and 20 mins to 1 hour on rapid chargers.

Which is why the sidelining of hydrogen continues to puzzle me.
OK, I know there are problems with it. You need to use energy to create it, instead of drilling it out of the ground.
But the infrastructure is already there. Just change petrol stations to hydrogen stations - some already have it.
Only marginally slower to fill up as opposed to petrol and with a very similar range. Then look at the time it takes to charge up the EV!
Plus, you can tax it in the same way as you tax petrol.
The government does not need to spend literally billions on building power stations or charging points.
It burns cleanly, you don't need to dispose of millions of used EV batteries every year.

But no, it's heads down and EV and nothing else.