25,000 in 24 hours.

[Workingman]

That is the number of high street job losses announced by just two companies and you have to feel sorry for those about to be made redundant through no fault of their own.

However, let's be clear about this, it is not Covid or Brexit causing these losses. Arcadia and Debenhams have been on the brink for the past two years or so. They were stuck in the past - Grace Brothers meet Arkwright.

In many ways Arcadia is the worst loss. Debenhams is just one unit on the high street whereas Arcadia has Top Shop, Dorothy Perkins, Burton's and Wallis units close to each other in many towns and cities. Unless new uses are found for these units they will be left to go derelict and that will bring the high street down even further.

Boarded up shops, once broken into, become magnets for druggies, dossers, rough sleepers and alcoholics and it does not take long for ordinary folk to avoid the areas and so the downward spiral continues and spreads.

[medsec222]

Maybe we should just get used to the fact that shopping for food and clothing on the internet is going to increase. We have to think of what can be done in the city centres that will increase their appeal. Building flats and houses, not for the wealthy but for people on average incomes, might be a start. Rather than them being ghost towns, small areas of small independent shops, post office, cafes and coffee shops might help to create communities.

[Kaz]

I think you have it there Medsec.

[Workingman]

I agree with you both. Some novel thinking is going to have to be done to sort the problem out. When redevelopment starts, and it will have to, planners could do worse than taking a look at some towns and cities in Europe that were flattened during WW2 and rebuilt afterwards.

[TheOstrich]

I think I am correct in saying that Birmingham City Centre has now lost three of its four major departmental stores - John Lewis above New Street Station (Grand Central), House of Frazer (ex Rackhams), and now Debenhams (one half of the Bull Ring Centre), leaving only the other half, Selfridges, going forward. (Is that correct, Jo?).

What concerns me, as well as the immediate and devastating loss of jobs, is that there could be a knock-on effect bringing some of the big property leasing companies further to their knees, like Intu or Hammersons. No rental income, no business; just a load of redundant buildings costing money, and crucially no dividends paid out. And that will have a serious effect on pension companies / providers ......

[TheOstrich]

I agree with you both. Some novel thinking is going to have to be done to sort the problem out. When redevelopment starts, and it will have to, planners could do worse than taking a look at some towns and cities in Europe that were flattened during WW2 and rebuilt afterwards.

I have often thought that they could do worse than completely flatten and redevelop Sutton Coldfield's monolithic Gracechurch / Red Rose Centre which in recent years has lost Sainsburys, House of Frazer, BHS, Laura Ashley, and a myriad of small shops from the Post Office to Ann Summers ......

[JoM]

I think I am correct in saying that Birmingham City Centre has now lost three of its four major departmental stores - John Lewis above New Street Station (Grand Central), House of Frazer (ex Rackhams), and now Debenhams (one half of the Bull Ring Centre), leaving only the other half, Selfridges, going forward. (Is that correct, Jo?).

Yep, there’s still Harvey Nichols over in the Mailbox but it’s a bit out of the way I always think.

We have a massive McArthur Glen Designer Outlet Village opening here in Cannock in the New Year, just a five minute walk out of the town centre. There have been a lot of arguments on local social media pages that it’ll kill off trade in the town centre. It won’t because the town centre doesn’t have anything that’ll be in competition with the stores that’ll be there, apart from perhaps JD v the Nike and Adidas outlets. Anyway, the town centre died years ago. If you want women’s clothes it’s a choice between New Look or Asda. Men just have Asda. Basically, if you want clothes and don’t want to buy online you have to go out of town for them. There are probably more empty shops than there are open.

A plan has been put together to redevelop the town centre, concentrating more on restaurants, entertainment and residential (a mix of houses, flats and retirement accommodation). Whether it’ll ever happen remains to be seen (but if it does we’ll finally see the back of the eyesore of a car park that you can see from a few miles away), something needs to be done though because it’s gone from being a busy market town to a ghost town. Even the market has closed down.

[Workingman]

A plan has been put together to redevelop the town centre, concentrating more on restaurants, entertainment and residential (a mix of houses, flats and retirement accommodation).

Jo, that is what I was banging on about when I mentioned the European towns. I am thinking of towns / cities like Venlo, Den Bosch, Erkelenz, Goch, Bastogne, Verviers. They have 'traditional' shopping areas but they also include some small housing complexes and apartments giving a 'community' feel to those places. They are alive into the late evenings.

New developments in Leeds next to the city centre have followed a similar pattern. Apartment blocks are built round a central area with offices, cafes, bars, shops - a community within a larger community. There is no reason why the same cannot be done in the older parts of town if only the will and vision is there. All of the utility services are there it just need the buildings to be upgraded. Did i mention that it also preserves green belt / farming land in the process?

[cromwell]

Jo, that is what I was banging on about when I mentioned the European towns. I am thinking of towns / cities like Venlo, Den Bosch, Erkelenz, Goch, Bastogne, Verviers. They have 'traditional' shopping areas but they also include some small housing complexes and apartments giving a 'community' feel to those places. They are alive into the late evenings.

New developments in Leeds next to the city centre have followed a similar pattern. Apartment blocks are built round a central area with offices, cafes, bars, shops - a community within a larger community. There is no reason why the same cannot be done in the older parts of town if only the will and vision is there. All of the utility services are there it just need the buildings to be upgraded. Did i mention that it also preserves green belt / farming land in the process?

I agree with all this, and it's something we have discussed before on here. To some extent it does depend on the local council. Also planning rules and also greed. One of the buildings in Wakefield that I used to work in has been converted to flats. Very, very small flats. There is apparently some get out clause that enables these rabbit hutches to be built. Also, Wakefield council. My God. If there is any way of cocking things up, they will find it. It may be that Wakefield city centre doesn't end up dead, ghetto-ised and grim but if so imo it will be more luck than judgement.

But yes, the central idea is sound. Put people back into the city centres and bring them back to life.

[Kaz]

Jo you are 100% correct about your new Outlet centre. Those kind of shops are no threat to the High Street, they serve a completely different demographic.