Talk about passing the buck!

[cromwell]

It was announced today that in the last week 137,000 vaccines were administered.

It sounds good, but at that rate it will take almost two years to inoculate the most vulnerable priority groups - those down to P4 level.

The programme is going to have to be ramped up by many factors to make most of us safe in the short term. Are the government, PHE, the NHS and military up to it?

There is a problem with administering the Pfizer vaccine - it has to be stored at some unfeasibly low temperature (-75c?).
Imo the government are hoping and praying tha the Oxford vaccine comes good, and quickly. Cheaper and can be stored in the ordinary medical fridge, hence much less problematical re moving, storing and administering.

[miasmum]

We were supposed to start administering the Pfizer vaccine Tues, that got postponed until today, as problem with the delivery. Then it got postponed until the weekend. So we now are vaccinating people Saturday and Sunday. Problem with this vaccine is the storage and the fact it has to be mixed and then has to be used within 3.5 hours. So you need a heck of a lot of people. One to mix, one to check, one to administer, one to do the admin. We are having 4 lines at a time. Each surgery has a time slot depending on how many patients you have.

The Oxford vaccine can be stored in a normal fridge, as far as I am aware it wont need mixing and therefore it will be just like doing any usual flu clinic. Plus the patients dont have to travel, whereas at the weekend for the Pfizer one they have to travel across town.

[cromwell]

Thanks for that MM, that explains a lot.

[Suff]

He's lost control.

He never had control. Blair gave it away and once it is given away it's given away.

Please don't try and put devolution on Boris' head when it is totally on Blair's.

None of the devolved parliaments will do what England does as being a UK action, because that would completely void the entire premise of devolved assemblies, parliaments or governments.

You need to understand devolution politics from the other side.

[Suff]

but if you get ill it's from your own actions seems to be the gist

That is the country I grew up in. Personal responsibility was expected, government was for those things people couldn't do for themselves and the police is for people who won't conform.

My how far our expectations have dropped. It is impossible to "fix" this without blanket vaccination and the vaccine has been certified for less than a month and this particular vaccine is in limited supply with difficult storage requirements.

Yet people expect it to be "fixed" for Christmas, complain that they're not giving us Christmas, want to go out and act as if there is no impact for doing what the hell they want at Christmas and if it all goes wrong, it will all be the government's fault?

The vast majority of people don't want Christmas blocked. What is the answer? Allow them Christmas but ask them to be sensible sounds like the most British thing to do.

It should be blatantly obvious that Covid won't be going away before 50% of the population are vaccinated. We just have to look at Germany to see that all these fairy stories about how the "government could fix it" if they just did the "right thing" are just that. Fairy stories. Germany is heading for a Christmas in total lockdown, with deaths at an all time high and the virus raging totally out of control. Germany, that has (had), much lower deaths than the UK, was in much better shape and was utterly convinced that they had "fixed it" by "sensible" measures.

So why are we hammering the government when we demand the impossible? The people are being given what they demand. But when they are being told to be responsible and accountable for their actions, it's the Government's fault.

You know what they say about arguing with an idiot. Don't do it because they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

[Workingman]

Suff, It has got SFA to do with devolution, that's just conflating different things, I was talking about control of the virus related policies and messages. You did note that I mentioned that it (the Christmas relaxation message) was a UK wide decision between the four leaders and that they had then chosen to go their own ways, didn't you?

Shell, I do understand the difficulties with the BioNTeck / Pfizer vaccine in its transportation, storage, thawing, dilution and inoculation - it is not easy. The time frame for the last three stages - the administering station phase - is only about 6 hours so everything has to run perfectly.

However, the numbers do not alter. To get those in priorities 1, 2 and 3 done (~12 million) and then to start on their second dose will need something like 450,000 inoculations per day and that is going to take a monumental effort.

It is, of course, our personal responsibility to act sensibly and within the rules. However, it is a sad fact that not everyone in the UK can fully understand, and they really do need the Ladybird version of events. For that reason the government must make its messages clear, consistent, reasonable and easy to comprehend. That is where it is failing. Don't lump these people in with the "I'm all right Jacks".

[Suff]

WM, when you say we have a UK decision but then three of the component parts of the UK decide to do their own thing, followed immediately by our PM having lost his grip, what else am I to assume?

I think the people, in general, have a marked lack of self discipline or self responsibility. I blame the changes in the 70's, the 60's were a shock and a massive change, but in the 70's we decided we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. That attitude pervaded until the children of the 70's got into power. Then they let the dogs loose and we are where we are.

Nobody predicted a global pandemic because nobody expected one. All the "free thinking" crowd assumed our medical prowess would ensure we never saw one. Even in the face of the evidence that we have not been able to properly "cure" one single virus.

So the population goes on with it's selfish and inverted view of the world until, suddenly, someone says "you can't". The backlash is huge and the press and media stoke the flames and warm themselves by the fire.

Almost everyone has lost their grip. Merkel, Macron (who has covid), Trump (regardless of whether you thought he had any in the first place). The second wave has crushed a whole raft of "assumptions" about who is doing a good job and who isn't. Not helped by a large dose of "vaccine envy" over the channel.

This Christmas is what people will make of it. The Government said they'd shut the country down so that the people could have a slightly more relaxed Christmas. The Government shut the country down and then have allowed a slightly more relaxed Christmas. If Scotland, Wales and NI don't want to give their people what they want, that's not the problem of the PM.

If people don't act responsibly, they're going to be locked down again. Hard. In the new year. Their choice.

What is so difficult to understand? Ah, I forgot, dislike of a government or a person erodes understanding.

[saundra]

I personally would prefer the Oxford injection
Can you tell the dr you want that one simply because it's just one injection ?

[cruiser2]

In the DM it mentions an MP who was at a so-called business dinner with over 20 other people. Would like to know who the other 26 people were
and how much business was discussed.
Another case of "Do as I say not as I do".
Seems they do not understand plain English.

[Kaz]

Good grief Suff! Yes of course people should take some personal responsibility, but a leader's role is to blooming well lead! Not waffle