The Channel invasion. Did you ever wonder why..

[Suff]

Sending illegals to a third country outside of Europe or the EU is not the answer. Dealing with them forcefully on the borders is. That is not taking the moral high ground, it is being sensible.

Sending illegals thousands of miles from where they want to be is absolutely the answer. Because there can be no pressure brought to bear to "just let them take that next step". They also let the remainder, trying to come over, now what happens if you are able to take that "next step".

Dealing with them forcefully had never worked, not one single time. Because every time countries have been forced into letting them through on "humanitarian" grounds. Winter is coming, expect the rhetoric to ramp up with it. Especially as lives are lost through the cold.

The ECHR, as you rightly say, is an international organisation. Members may be signed up to it, but they can also ignore it if they want to take the stick for it. It is law and the rulings are considered that way, but not everyone in the world is signed up to it and it has been treated with contempt before. The ECJ is an EU organsiation, everyone in the EU is signed up to it and it has the force of law. Something which is challenged from time to time, but has solid penalties.

[cromwell]

Well here's a thought.

"If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism." - Thomas Sowell.

[Workingman]

Sending illegals thousands of miles from where they want to be is absolutely the answer.

I suppose that if you are a colonialist with a penchant for pressurising poor countrie to do your dirty work it might seem the right thing to do. It is not how I expect my supposedly civilised country to oprate. I would rather countries take charge of their borders, grew one, and then dealt with the illegals directly.

[Suff]

Not one European country, with illegals on the border, has "grown a pair".

Recently Libya, by shooting them and Trump, by ignoring them, have succeeded.

[cromwell]

And the cringing reaction to the latest terrorist attack shows us that our government is not going to grow a pair, and that our media is in full on deflection and propaganda mode.

[medsec222]

Well it wouldn't do to offend anyone Cromwell.

[Suff]

The whole reason that these immigrants are where they are is to try and force their way into the EU via the sympathy vote. They have travelled thousands of miles to do so.

My take is that we can travel them thousands of miles elsewhere, safely, house them, comfortably and allow them to make the correct legal representations that they should have done in the first place.

But at the same time removing the sympathy vote blackmail and avoiding complex legal cases blocking up our courts for no other reason than to force entry into our country.

I'm hardly advocating cattle cars to Auschwitz. Although you would think I was form the the way the liberal elite go on.

What angers me though is that there are real horror stories in among the crowd but they are vastly outnumbered by those on the make.

Which is a double tragedy.

Given a place of comfort to make the applications, those who are in dire straits and desperate, will stay, make the applications, then accept the decision. Those on the make will do everything they possibly can to avoid it and will try to leave the second they can. Taking the press and the pressure groups out of it will allow those most truly in need of aid to get the aid they need. At the same time those on the make will stop trying to come to anyone who has these rules. They will try to abuse the hospitality of others who do not.

This was abundantly clear in the last great exodus, where illegals walked straight through Denmark and headed for Sweden. Because Denmark only gave them subsistence, made them live in hostel accommodation and made them wait 18 months before bringing their families over and also had other constraints on their conduct before bringing their families over. Sweden, on the other hand, gave them homes, a living wage and let their families in within 6 months. Driving a large surge in the Sweden Democrats to the second largest party. Something nobody would really want normally.

The most in need? They're in the camps just over the border from their home country, stuck, no resources, no representation either because they are dangerous places and the press would much rather show you the "poor refugees" who have travelled a thousand miles or more, to a Baltic country border, then retire to their comfortable hotel at night.

If you are wondering, yes, my contempt is showing.

[Workingman]

I get what you are saying, but if they are being processed by the UK they still come under the UK's appeals procedures and court rules no matter where they are. The weak spot.

I also get the bit about those on the make v the ones desperately in need - the double tragedy.

My BiL has three family members working for the Home Office processing these applications. Those on the shop floor know exactly what is going on but they have to make their decisions based on the rules from the higher ups - the guy the other day and politicians.

A lot of the illegals are not penniless waifs and strays. They had the money and correct paperwork to be able to fly to Belarus etc, from wherever, yet when they get to the EU / UK their papers have mysteriously been lost or stolen or they have a hand written script supposedly claiming who they claim to be. Then there are the tales of larger families 'lending out' their children to others to make their applications seem more 'needy'. A lot of it is a con but we do not have enough cynics to challenge them.

[Suff]

I know it's a real fubar.

My take was we needed to amend the law to allow us to "re-site" applicants and deal with them under international law and not UK law until such time as we made a determination.

I remember when Cameron refused to take any of the French border illegals and took 25,000 straight out of the camps bordering Syria. The most damaged and the most needy. Gutsy call, ignored in the press, never followed up and it cost the NHS a packet to help them.

Not the story the media wanted to present. I just think that having a separate case for illegals which actually helps the real horror cases (some who escaped persecution in the camps and were willing to take any chance), might be better than what is happening today.

It couldn't be a hell of a lot worse without just letting anyone in.

[cromwell]

Well it wouldn't do to offend anyone Cromwell.

Many a true word!