The scrapping of HS2 begins.

[Workingman]

The advantage of living on a continent with multiple capitals and 2nd and 3rd cities that are hundreds (or a thousand +) kilometres apart is that there are dozens of viable routes.

The UK is not that place:

London to Birmingham - 155km
Birmingham to Sheffield - 110km
Birmingham to Manchester - 110km
Birmingham - Leeds - 147km
Birmingham to Bristol / Cardiff - 125km
Leeds to Manchester - 56km
Leeds tp Liverpool - 103km
Leeds to Hull - 80km
London to Bristol - 170km
London to Cardiff - 210km

Only London to Edinburgh / Glasgow at about 525km come close, as I have said before.

[Suff]

People fly from the Midlands to London because of the state of our railways.

Also if you don't fix the southern leg, the northern legs are never going to happen. Meaning Edinburgh, Glasgow, Carlisle, Newcastle, are never going to see non flight fast transit.

But, of course, if you live in the south or the Midlands you don't care about their services do you?

Small minded short sightedness has damaged the UK more than any other attitude.

When we were the largest empire in the world we got there through vision and action. Bloody ruthless at times. We didn't get there through intense navel gazing and rabid self interest.

The same people who deride HS2 are the people who claim Scotland's wish to exit Great Britain is unreasonable and doomed to failure.

Meanwhile those same people enjoy being able to fly to foreign destinations direct from local airports on UK carriers. Whereas the Scots either have to fly foreign flag carriers or hub through England.

Now you want to make sure they never get good high speed rail because it doesn't meet your needs or wishes.

You might as well put up a banner saying VOTE SNP.

Try looking at the long game for a while. Covid killed the northern extension. If we build the first leg it will not remain dead. If we don't it will remain dead until we do.

[Workingman]

FFS we don't have an Empire any more! We live on an island.

Shaving 20-40 minutes off multi-hour rail journey is not going to affect the time precious wonks, they are still going to fly: because - it - is - quicker - and - always - will - be.

Wanting to connect many places, from Aberdeen to Plymouth, with quicker links to all places in between is not small minded or short sighted.... It is what the majority of travellers want to do. It is pretty bloody ingenious compared to the micro minded idea of a fast train set for the few along one line.

It is also true that some of the proposed time savings could have been achieved by upgraded tracks and newer (faster) trains. The last InterCity 125 rolled out of the factory in 1982.

[Suff]

You want to create small local interconnects with small regional upgrades.

This does absolutely nothing for the longer legs which need the initial infra.

Block a high quality high performance backbone if you want, but don't try and justify it by saying a few local tweaks are what we need.

They are only part of what we need and they should be layered on top of the backbone.

You don't build new shiny infrastructure on century old foundations.

Not if you want it to work. We have been doing this for decades. It doesn't work and no end of trying to justify it will make it work.

It seems everyone wants the benefit without paying the price. That only works in the movies. In the real world it is a train wreck.

[Workingman]

It is not the speed of the train: if the track is not up to it it's pointless.

An InterCity 125 can do speeds of 125mph. In theory it could do Leeds to London in 1 hr 48 mins, so why doesn't it? It can't accelerate from 0 to 125 in a second nor decelerate at the same rate - nothing can, not even HS2 trains.

No, its main problems lie in getting out of the commuter belts at both ends, so from Leeds to south of Wakefield and then between Bedford and Stevenage to Kings cross.

The next issue is the slowing down and speeding up times as the train passes through Doncaster, Retford, Newark, Grantham and Peterborough stations, and others, on the route.

The existing Leeds to London line could have been made quicker (than HS2) with less environmental damage using IC 125s, and at a fraction of the cost of HS2. That could be done on many other lines too.

London to Manchester via Birmingham is not a backbone, it is more like a spare rib. Gotta love the pictures in the glossy brochures the HS2heads drool over. Bullet nosed and very shiny silvery blue train speeding across open countryside.... but with barely a gantry or overhead cable in sight. So pretty, such an easy sell to the gullible.

HS2 powered by Angel breath.

[Suff]

Well we view it different ways.

I see HS2 as long overdue progress. My fault I guess.

[Workingman]

Never a truer word....